German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am debating if I should neuter my pup at the vet recommended 5 months old, the breeder recommended 12-18 months old… or if I should stud him out. Both his parents/grandparents and more, especially on his sire’s line, have been health and temperament tested. He is a very good pup; very calm, lovable, and easy to train. If he can produce litters half as good as he is, it would be a benefit for the breed. I just don’t know if there is a market or need for it; seeing all the great pups and dogs on this page. German Shepherds seem to be an excellent breed all around. What do you all think? Looking forward to all expert and non-expert advice. :) Before I make any definite decision, I will definitely get all testing needed beforehand (hips, elbows, cardiac, DM, etc.), and would require the same of any mate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,677 Posts
I am leaning towards the later neuter option nowadays. Just seems like a good idea to let the dog develop as "naturally" as possible before going in and snipping out organs.

Ever compare the size of a steer to a non-altered bull? Steer get HUGE, bulls get big but nowhere near the size of a steer. GSDs are already at risk for bone/joint issue and adding any size to the equation can't be beneficial. I don't know if cow vs. dog size development correlates in any way, but it's something to think about at least.

As to the vet vs. breeder thing. That is your call. Both parties have unique knowledge. One is a specialist in the the breed(breeder) and one is a generalist with much better knowledge of physiology(vet) and many years of study and practical application of that knowledge. Ask both parties why they chose XX age to get the snip-a-roo done, compare/contrast.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,287 Posts
IMO, wait to neuter. Not because your dog is destined to be a stud, but because of the health benefits of remaining intact through their growth periods. At the clinic I work at our vets do not recommend altering large breed dogs until they are over 14 months.

As for stud, your pup is under 5 months old. You have no idea what his adult personality is yet, and no idea of his final conformation. You have plenty of years (at least two!) to wait to see if he makes the cut to one day sire a litter. You're absolutely on the right track with all your testing, and that's fantastic! Don't forget titles and training, too. Enjoy your time, explore all the sports you can with him, and most of all POST PICS! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the input, it gives me something to think about. Has anyone had any problem with a spraying male? I think that is the biggest fear I have with waiting to neuter. Especially since he will be an indoor dog. He starts his training this coming Saturday, I'm excited about that :D
Here he is during leash training... he figured out if he stops, he gets a treat to start back up, gotta love those ears.

2013-08-05 20.06.33[2].jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,287 Posts
Spraying male? Hmm. I reckon that's probably the same as marking, but correct me if I'm wrong. Lifting the leg to pee, right? If you don't want him marking, train him not to. My males aren't allowed to mark on walks. Too messy and I hate stopping for it. You won't have to worry about it until five months at the EARLIEST, probably closer to 8 months on average. Some never hike a leg.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Yes, marking... I have heard it called spraying, I don't know. My Shih Tzu has been fixed since he was 4 months old so we never went through it. Marking outside would not be a problem, I just don't want them marking in the house which is what I have heard some say they do if you don't get them fixed in time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,287 Posts
Yes, marking... I have heard it called spraying, I don't know. My Shih Tzu has been fixed since he was 4 months old so we never went through it. Marking outside would not be a problem, I just don't want them marking in the house which is what I have heard some say they do if you don't get them fixed in time.
I'm gonna have to call that more of a wives' tale than anything else! Like anything, if you let them they can... with proper housetraining it really shouldn't be any more of an issue then him pooping in your living room, haha! :wild:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I'm gonna have to call that more of a wives' tale than anything else! Like anything, if you let them they can... with proper housetraining it really shouldn't be any more of an issue then him pooping in your living room, haha! :wild:

:silly: I feel silly... lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Discussion Starter #10

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,124 Posts
Although I'm not for neutering early...I have to admit that when a person thinks they have the "perfect" GSD at 5 months old and claims it will produce the greatest puppies in the world, I tend to lean towards neutering.

Don't take offense to this...but you didn't even know that intact males DO NOT when trained properly (housebroken within a week) don't mark inside the home. But yet you're acting like an expert in GSD temperament and behavior claiming your dog will produce amazing off-spring without him even going through a single obedience class...

I'm not trying to rip you, and I'll probably get ripped myself for my comment, but slow down. Train your dog, trial your dog, get OBJECTIVE opinions about your dog from other people that have had years of experience with the breed. Then decide what you should do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Although I'm not for neutering early...I have to admit that when a person thinks they have the "perfect" GSD at 5 months old and claims it will produce the greatest puppies in the world, I tend to lean towards neutering.

Don't take offense to this...but you didn't even know that intact males DO NOT when trained properly (housebroken within a week) don't mark inside the home. But yet you're acting like an expert in GSD temperament and behavior claiming your dog will produce amazing off-spring without him even going through a single obedience class...

I'm not trying to rip you, and I'll probably get ripped myself for my comment, but slow down. Train your dog, trial your dog, get OBJECTIVE opinions about your dog from other people that have had years of experience with the breed. Then decide what you should do.

Well first of all, my pup is 9 weeks, not 5 months...and he is an amazing pup who comes from a great line. I never said I was an expert, just happy with my dog is all, what is wrong with that? This is the reason I am asking the questions, to LEARN!! It's not like I am going to breed him or neuter him tomorrow, next week, or next month... but I am researching all my options to ensure I make the best decision for HIM.... I hope you do not get ripped, for what?? Opinions **** everyone has one, as for yours... Thanks ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Marking outside would not be a problem, I just don't want them marking in the house which is what I have heard some say they do if you don't get them fixed in time.
I wouldn't let him mark, period. As soon as he lifts his leg, distract him. If he never starts, it will never be an issue. :) Otherwise you'll be stopping at every light post, fire hydrant and trash can on trash day so he can mark.

As far a neutering, we've decided to keep our male intact. For now. If any health issues come up, we will reevaluate. We have a secure yard and will be responsible to keep him away from unaltered females. If we were to have him neutered, we would wait until he was at least two.




Sent from Petguide.com Free App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I wouldn't let him mark, period. As soon as he lifts his leg, distract him. If he never starts, it will never be an issue. :) Otherwise you'll be stopping at every light post, fire hydrant and trash can on trash day so he can mark.

As far a neutering, we've decided to keep our male intact. For now. If any health issues come up, we will reevaluate. We have a secure yard and will be responsible to keep him away from unaltered females. If we were to have him neutered, we would wait until he was at least two.




Sent from Petguide.com Free App

Keeping them in tact seems to be the majority so far... I will definitely consider it. I plan on keeping him in obedience classes so I'm sure the advanced classes will help teach me to teach him not to mark, if I do wait or decide not to neuter him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,287 Posts
Actually, marking is rarely covered in most obedience classes. It's not something you need to attend classes to learn; it's as simple as saying 'no' or redirecting or popping the lead or however you choose to prevent behaviors when he attempts to do it and rewarding when he squats the way you want. No worries! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,959 Posts
Curious what lines he is from, can you post a pedigree link?

Heres my opinion since everyone gets to have one :)..

You dont know anything about your pup until you work it as a young dog/adult, pups can do abrupt 180s followed by a 290 :).

You dont know anything about your dog until you compare it to other GSDs that you SEE training and working.

You dont know anything about your dog until someone with a PROVEN track record of success breeding and or working German Shepherds tells you he is breed worthy. This does not include the petsmart trainer :) or the byb who breeds pets in your local area..

You dont know anything about your dog if you think this board (or any other) is full of great examples of the breed that are breed worthy.

(The above I apply to myself as well as others so dont take it personal ;)).

I am also in favor of leaving the dog intact until maturity, they develop and fill out better when intact. Also, less likelyhood of cancer, joint and ligament issues as per a recent study done out of So-Cal.

Have fun with your pup, join a local schutzhund or sport club you can learn more there then at any local dog training school if the club is decent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Curious what lines he is from, can you post a pedigree link?

Heres my opinion since everyone gets to have one :)..

You dont know anything about your pup until you work it as a young dog/adult, pups can do abrupt 180s followed by a 290 :).

You dont know anything about your dog until you compare it to other GSDs that you SEE training and working.

You dont know anything about your dog until someone with a PROVEN track record of success breeding and or working German Shepherds tells you he is breed worthy. This does not include the petsmart trainer :) or the byb who breeds pets in your local area..

You dont know anything about your dog if you think this board (or any other) is full of great examples of the breed that are breed worthy.

(The above I apply to myself as well as others so dont take it personal ;)).

I am also in favor of leaving the dog intact until maturity, they develop and fill out better when intact. Also, less likelyhood of cancer, joint and ligament issues as per a recent study done out of So-Cal.

Have fun with your pup, join a local schutzhund or sport club you can learn more there then at any local dog training school if the club is decent.
I will post his pedigree when I get home figure all that out.. I really was more interested in the neutering part of the question than the breeding. I sort of threw that in to get opinions...which I appreciate every one!..
I do see great dogs on here no matter where they happen to come from. And I didn't say they were breed worthy, just complimenting them. I was blessed enough not to get mine from a byb but i know that doesnt qualify him to reproduce. I understand and know pups change as they get older, I am new to GSD not dogs... by the time I would even think about breeding I would do tons of research with reliable sources... I am a research Queen! (2 classes away from my MBA!)... so believe me when I tell you, IF I ever get serious about breeding, keeping him in tact, or neutering... I will be well informed of all risks and benefits out there...Thanks All :D

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
710 Posts
I just saw this study on Facebook last night. 759 Golden Retrievers were used in the study,and they plan to have further studies with different breeds because they don't know if the results would transfer to other breeds.

The first 2 paragraphs...

"Neutering, and the age at which a dog is neutered, may affect the animal’s risk for developing certain cancers and joint diseases, according to a new study of golden retrievers by a team of researchers at the University of California, Davis

The study, which examined the health records of 759 golden retrievers, found a surprising doubling of hip dysplasia among male dogs neutered before one year of age. This and other results were published Feb. 13 in the online scientific journal PLOS ONE."

and further down...
"
The study revealed that, for all five diseases analyzed, the disease rates were significantly higher in both males and females that were neutered either early or late compared with intact (non-neutered) dogs.

Specifically, early neutering was associated with an increase in the occurrence of hip dysplasia, cranial cruciate ligament tear and lymphosarcoma in males and of cranial cruciate ligament tear in females. Late neutering was associated with the subsequent occurrence of mast cell tumors and hemangiosarcoma in females."

Golden retriever study suggests neutering affects dog health :: UC Davis News & Information
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top