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Discussion Starter #1
Just wanted to say that I'm definitely not anti titles in any venue for the GS. I think titles help dogs develop to their potential and strengthen the understanding and love between dog and owner. I also think that many many many years ago certain breed titles ( SCH/HGH ) were great tools for acquiring breeding stock and developing breed knowledge for owners that wanted to become breeders. No, I am not against titles at all, but I also know that titles can no longer serve as a breeding endorsement like in years past. Is it better than nothing?.....probably........but the bar is so low now that even with titles scores of dogs are still lacking in breed type and breed reliability. So we must look deeper than titles to assess dogs and breeders today.
 

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This has been discussed extensively in the past two weeks. Perhaps you'd be better served looking at those threads. A few are still active.
 

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This has been discussed extensively in the past two weeks. Perhaps you'd be better served looking at those threads. A few are still active.
Perhaps you should get to know who's who on the board a bit better since you're new and then you might understand the reason for certain threads being started. :confused:
 

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So we must look deeper than titles to assess dogs and breeders today.

I agree with this 100%. While titles can help determine certain things, real every day life and situations can determine more, IMO.
 

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Perhaps you should get to know who's who on the board a bit better since you're new and then you might understand the reason for certain threads being started. :confused:
True to a point. But the same folks will reply and the same ole' discussion will be had.
 

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The issue with this discussion/topic is that someone like cliff, carmen, robin, chris, or person that has been in the breed for 30+ years, has a lot of experience and knowledge about pedigrees and dogs that 99% of us have never heard of. They understand what kinds of drives they want out of their dogs and what they want to see out of those puppies. That's a lot of trust to put into a breeder who the average puppy buyer has contact with mostly during the transaction and then probably never again.

All a title is, is verifiable evidence that the breeder did what the breeder claims to have done. And that the dog with the title did what was required of it that one time to receive the title (in the case of AKC the dog did it 3 times). The majority of us (me included) don't understand what we want out of a dog like the people I mentioned earlier.

I have some people like them at my club...the breeder I will use for my next dog is at my club and I've had enough conversations and training sessions with them to understand their philosophy, what they want to achieve, and how their goals line up with mine. If I was not at a club, and just had a pet GSD, none of that would matter. My goal would be, a well behaved, social dog. Titles would mean squat (they didn't mean anything to me except a higher price tag on a puppy 3 years ago when I decided to get a GSD).

I don't know...I guess I don't get it...this forum pushes people to get titled dogs. To not solely trust the breeders "word" that their dogs are everything they say they are and more. But then we get people like cliff who make you think otherwise. And make you think that you should look at breeders that might be doing something right although they aren't titling. Problem is...you have to develop a much higher level of trust with those breeders. Which takes much longer than what the average puppy buyer is willing to put into the transaction.

Like cliff said...we have to look deeper to assess the dogs and breeders today. That means joining a club, learning about the breed, seeing 100s of different dogs work, and realizing which breeder YOU agree with. And then we have to hope that each one of us agrees with the standard and the ground work that was laid out when the breed was started. But even with the breeders we have on this forum...not saying any of them are right/wrong...have varying ideas of what the breed standard is and what to expect from the dogs they produce.
 

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This has been discussed extensively in the past two weeks. Perhaps you'd be better served looking at those threads. A few are still active.
Yeah Cliff, you might learn something.:)

Or you could try the ( Show me your hunk,three legged sables wearing a bandana threads) I've found those to be helpful.:)


Lilie quote:True to a point. But the same folks will reply and the same ole' discussion will be had.

Which topics does that not happen on. It's going on right now with vaccines.
Then it will be spay/neuter or BYBs.

Like Rocket Dog said it's mostly for new people.

I would hope new people would consider what they want from this breed and not just whether to use a prong or a halti.
 

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Well, and still for those of us not shiny-new.

Spokane is a big county-- over half million people, but it isn't that "close" to clubs or competitions. You have to travel over the Cascades to the west side of the state for any type of venue. Or go to Oregon around the Portland area. Which is feasible but these are 4+ hour trips each way;, Portland is six on good day, complete with dangerous passes in the wintertime. Of course it's feasible and doable and there are plenty of people on this board who go that far to train and compete. But for those of us who work 60+ hours a week and have three teenagers (Obviously am referring to myself here ) it's not really that feasible. I have learned more on this board then I would've just sitting around doing nothing. And I still learn more every time I read these discussions; it might only be one sentence but suddenly something is clear to me.

I love reading them.
 

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Best Post!!

I notice the showline breeders on the board have pretty much stayed out of these threads.....

I'm not a breeder, have no control over this, am a member of the 99% and in the same boat as you.

So I have my rescued goober dog and my HD+ showline and that's life. *sigh*



The issue with this discussion/topic is that someone like cliff, carmen, robin, chris, or person that has been in the breed for 30+ years, has a lot of experience and knowledge about pedigrees and dogs that 99% of us have never heard of. They understand what kinds of drives they want out of their dogs and what they want to see out of those puppies. That's a lot of trust to put into a breeder who the average puppy buyer has contact with mostly during the transaction and then probably never again.

All a title is, is verifiable evidence that the breeder did what the breeder claims to have done. And that the dog with the title did what was required of it that one time to receive the title (in the case of AKC the dog did it 3 times). The majority of us (me included) don't understand what we want out of a dog like the people I mentioned earlier.

I have some people like them at my club...the breeder I will use for my next dog is at my club and I've had enough conversations and training sessions with them to understand their philosophy, what they want to achieve, and how their goals line up with mine. If I was not at a club, and just had a pet GSD, none of that would matter. My goal would be, a well behaved, social dog. Titles would mean squat (they didn't mean anything to me except a higher price tag on a puppy 3 years ago when I decided to get a GSD).

I don't know...I guess I don't get it...this forum pushes people to get titled dogs. To not solely trust the breeders "word" that their dogs are everything they say they are and more. But then we get people like cliff who make you think otherwise. And make you think that you should look at breeders that might be doing something right although they aren't titling. Problem is...you have to develop a much higher level of trust with those breeders. Which takes much longer than what the average puppy buyer is willing to put into the transaction.

Like cliff said...we have to look deeper to assess the dogs and breeders today. That means joining a club, learning about the breed, seeing 100s of different dogs work, and realizing which breeder YOU agree with. And then we have to hope that each one of us agrees with the standard and the ground work that was laid out when the breed was started. But even with the breeders we have on this forum...not saying any of them are right/wrong...have varying ideas of what the breed standard is and what to expect from the dogs they produce.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I agree with those that think that some of these topics are redundant, and I know they irritate some people that see things differently, and this is why I have made a conscious effort to limit my discussion on the board. Some things I will bring up once a year FOR the benefit of newer people. But when it comes to puppie, and training, and most of breeding topics anymore, I know for myself I have stopped posting because it does get tiresome. Still, there are many newbies that reach out to the Chris, Carmen's, Sues, Lees, Tim McConnel's and many others to often refute some of the things that are fed to people in the open forum. At the end of the day, people will see for themselves in open society if the ring of truth and credibility is attached to what is said on these forums.....and hopefully it assist someone in getting a good dog and not have to post in the problems section of the forum.
 

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Best Post!!

I notice the showline breeders on the board have pretty much stayed out of these threads.....

I'm not a breeder, have no control over this, am a member of the 99% and in the same boat as you.
Well, I am the worst kind of show breeder -- American Show Lines. Yes, I am aware of their faults, and also of their strengths. I love the look of a moderate ASL dog herding sheep, jumping in agility, or doing obedience.

They don't have the fight or the drive of most WL dogs. But they have plenty for me. Enough for most dog sports. Are they perfect, no. Would I trade them for a WL, no.
 

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Well, in DaniFani's defense, Cliff did just start a similar thread yesterday. Cliff's my bud, but no reason to chastise someone for pointing a poster to a simlar thread.
 

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I forgot to watch for everyone's possible sensitivities.

DaniFani. I meant no offense to you. It just struck me funny because Cliff has many years of experience with the GSD breed. He also had posted in the threads you referenced.

I should have said so and posted many smilies.

My apologies.
 

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Sigh.

I've noticed that you seem to have taken a dislike to my posts. I don't really care actually other than the fact that I don't see any chastising anywhere. If someone can't say what they want to say on this board what good is it?

I saw the reason Cliff started this thread. All I'm saying is that "chastising" someone else for starting a thread isn't "called for" either.

Andy snuck in there between posts. This was meant for GSDElsa.
 

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Sigh.

I've noticed that you seem to have taken a dislike to my posts. I don't really care actually other than the fact that I don't see any chastising anywhere. If someone can't say what they want to say on this board what good is it?

I saw the reason Cliff started this thread. All I'm saying is that "chastising" someone else for starting a thread isn't "called for" either.

Andy snuck in there between posts. This was meant for GSDElsa.
I guess we are both guilty.:D
 

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I swear, no one can voice any different opinion or any dislike or anything that might be deemed disagreeable in anyway on this board anymore.

This is not the only forum I am a member of. Nor is it my first year on a forum. Sometimes, you need to sit back and learn the board before you start telling other posters what to do. Otherwise it might come across a bit like someone who has just bought their first racing bike giving advice to Lance Armstrong on how to ride one.

And just for you, Andy: :) :) :)
 
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