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I'm so disappointed. About a year ago, an old friend I no longer talk to often asked for advice on how to find a breeder to replace a dog they lost. The old one was a Golden. I spent a lot of time writing out everything she should do, to be sure to buy only from a reputable breeder, no BYBs or else consider getting a rescue dog. I explained about the importance of socializing the dog, training, and age-appropriate exercise. She thanked me, then I didn't hear any more from her about a dog. I ran into her and yes, they have a puppy that is almost 6 months old. I asked where she found the breeder. She said they didn't need one, her neighbor's male and female had puppies, and they were so cute, they took one. The new dog is almost 6 months old, spends most of the time in their house or yard, has had no training other than basic indoor manners, is ignored all day while the parents work and the children are in school, and no surprise, is extremely active.

There was so much I could have said, instead I suggested they take an obedience course, and walked away. What do you say in a situation like that? I consoled myself with the thought that at least they aren't ruining a German Shepherd.
 

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I think you did the right thing.I have learned that you can't tell some people anything,even if they ask for your advice. It used to annoy me to no end when people didn't do things to help their animals and complained about misbehavior.
 

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There's really nothing we can do or say that will change some folks' minds.
Don't expend so much energy on it.

at least they aren't ruining a German Shepherd.
So it's okay to ruin other dogs? I don't follow this logic.
All dogs lives' are precious and none should be wasted.
But I bet the dog goes to the vet when it gets sick, and is fed daily, better than a life it could have had, chained to a tree, or just let run all over and get ran over by a car o some such.
 

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It's so frustrating. I see it both on this forum and in real life--despite all the good advice given on how to find a reputable breeder or rescue, people go out and buy from a BYB and then complain about how the dog has problems and the breeder isn't supportive.

I had a client who wanted a small dog and expressed interest in rescue. I set her up with contact information, talked to her for quite some time about it, and encouraged her in that direction. She called the rescue contact and they spent quite a bit of time with her. Then she turned around and bought a "designer" puppy off the internet for something like $1500.

I was shocked and angry but held my tongue. Now the dog, who was promised to be under 12 pounds, weighs about 25 or 30 (overweight of course), has terrible allergies requiring prednisone treatment, and has a nervous, shy temperament. Of course the owner complains about all these things, and I had to tell her in the most polite way possible that she effed up royally buying a puppy from the worst kind of BYB. Hopefully she won't repeat that mistake.
 

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A friend of mine who KNOWS all about BYB vs good ones did the same thing with a Weim....I found her two breeders who had good, healthy, dual titled stock...and she just decided she was NOT spending $1000 - $1500 (w shipping) for a pet....and found a BYB who had pups and bought one...he seems ok so far health wise - but I just felt like I was beating my head against a wall....she would not say what she paid for him - but I think it was less than $500....

As someone said, the Golden (and my friends Weim) will be fed, vetted appropriately and have good homes...it is just a shame that they supported BYB

Lee
 

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I think that a ruined GSD is more likely to be dangerous than a ruined Golden.
I've seen so many nasty and down right aggressive golden's. out of all the dogs that come into our shop my boss has been bit by more golden's than all the breeds we get and we take pretty much everything. not to say there aren't some sweet very forgiving golden's, but most I've seen get pretty nasty.
 

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Its sad, but it takes one bad experience for someone to learn their lesson. I had a friend that bought from a pet store, she thought her dog was the greatest thing ever (6 lb designer dog). The dog has had one knee replacement and is scheduled to have another one, it just turned 1. Before that she was thinking about going back to the pet store since she had such a "great experience" and her dog does have a pretty good temperament (a little protective of her in the wrong situations but I attribute that to napoleon syndrome). After spending a couple thousand on knees though, she now said she'll search out my help when finding a breeder or a rescue for her next one.
 

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When I first put the deposit on Gabe, my mother decided she wanted a puppy, too. She said that $1,000 was WAY too much to spend on a puppy, and she was going to get one from the newspaper. Fortunately, she hasn't yet, and she has fallen so in love with Gable that I think she's going to get a pup from the same breeder.

Victory!

But I have way too many friends that buy from BYB...especially those that want Pit Bulls and Yorkies...those seem to be the most common roadside puppies for sale, etc. And you just have to bite your tongue, and as positively as possible, try to nudge them towards rescue or responsible breeders for the future.
 

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I have had the great choice to be able to be a stay at home mom for almost two years, and now part time (really it's actually more than part time) stay at home mom. If we have another child, I'll be back to 100% SAHM for the first year or two. But prior to that, I worked full time, often had a part time job in addition to that or was in college full time as well. It's funny how life changes with marriage and a child, but really, most people work and most kids are in school unless the mom is a SAHM and the kids are home schooled.

So I find it to be extremely judgemental and off base to say that the dog is "ignored" all day while the parents work and kids are in school. There is absolutely nothing wrong with working normal full time jobs, having children in school and sports, and having a pet dog. I always had multiple german shepherds and was heavily involved in rescue when I was working full time.

If the dog is being fed and cared for medically when needed, isn't attacking the neighborhood children because it's fear aggressive, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over this. Sounds like a normal family with a normal pet. German shepherd or not, all dogs deserve to be loved and cared for. And it sounds like that's the case here. Just because they didn't go to a great breeder doesn't make it any less of a dog deserving of a loving family.

JMHO
 

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I agree, Rerun. Maybe on this forum we lose sight of the fact that a lot of people have dogs that are "just" pets, and that's fine with me. As long as they have shelter, food, water, a place to potty...I'm not going to worry or go around giving out unsolicited advice. A lot of families never take their dog to obedience class or do anything structured and have happy pets that are still part of the family.
 

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I have had the great choice to be able to be a stay at home mom for almost two years, and now part time (really it's actually more than part time) stay at home mom. If we have another child, I'll be back to 100% SAHM for the first year or two. But prior to that, I worked full time, often had a part time job in addition to that or was in college full time as well. It's funny how life changes with marriage and a child, but really, most people work and most kids are in school unless the mom is a SAHM and the kids are home schooled.

So I find it to be extremely judgemental and off base to say that the dog is "ignored" all day while the parents work and kids are in school. There is absolutely nothing wrong with working normal full time jobs, having children in school and sports, and having a pet dog. I always had multiple german shepherds and was heavily involved in rescue when I was working full time.

If the dog is being fed and cared for medically when needed, isn't attacking the neighborhood children because it's fear aggressive, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over this. Sounds like a normal family with a normal pet. German shepherd or not, all dogs deserve to be loved and cared for. And it sounds like that's the case here. Just because they didn't go to a great breeder doesn't make it any less of a dog deserving of a loving family.

JMHO
I agree with this. I didn't see anything in the first post that made me go :shocked::mad:. Those pups needed a home, and she probably kept her pup from ending up at a shelter. I work full time in the summer and go to school full time during the school year, so I guess I don't see what's wrong with a family that does that while having a pet. I guess maybe only stay at home moms and retired people should have dogs.
 

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Those pups needed a home, and she probably kept her pup from ending up at a shelter.
My only concern here is that she is supporting a BYB, which means that they will continue to make money and produce more puppies.

It's a hard situation, since it's not the puppy's fault, but you don't want to help the irresponsible breeder...
 

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I have had the great choice to be able to be a stay at home mom for almost two years, and now part time (really it's actually more than part time) stay at home mom. If we have another child, I'll be back to 100% SAHM for the first year or two. But prior to that, I worked full time, often had a part time job in addition to that or was in college full time as well. It's funny how life changes with marriage and a child, but really, most people work and most kids are in school unless the mom is a SAHM and the kids are home schooled.

So I find it to be extremely judgemental and off base to say that the dog is "ignored" all day while the parents work and kids are in school. There is absolutely nothing wrong with working normal full time jobs, having children in school and sports, and having a pet dog. I always had multiple german shepherds and was heavily involved in rescue when I was working full time.

If the dog is being fed and cared for medically when needed, isn't attacking the neighborhood children because it's fear aggressive, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over this. Sounds like a normal family with a normal pet. German shepherd or not, all dogs deserve to be loved and cared for. And it sounds like that's the case here. Just because they didn't go to a great breeder doesn't make it any less of a dog deserving of a loving family.

JMHO
I totally agree. My sister and brother-in-law rescued a one year old Doberman last year, he lived with the family since he was 8 weeks old and the mom was a SAHM and the dog was severely neglected. He was crated for 18 hours, only fed once a day, never let off the property or played with, he even had a cigarette burn on his back. He lived with a family but they never did anything with him

It doesn't matter what living situation the dog is in, it all depends on what quality of life the dog has.
 

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Did the people buy the puppy? I didn't get that impression but I'll go back and read more closely.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I didn't ask if they paid for the dog or if it was a gift, so I don't know that. I was also thinking a Golden will be less apt to end up in a shelter than a GSD that isn't trained or given a job to do, which shows my bias. I shouldn't have assumed that. I doubt they are going to give the dog up, they seem to love him. The point I tried to make to her before she ever got the dog is that she's not going to find the exact replacement for the dog she lost, so to please spend the time to find out what she's getting before accepting a new dog, not be disappointed after. I wonder if I could have explained it to her in a better or different way so she would have understood.

There is nothing wrong with a family that has two working parents getting a puppy. I didn't mean to imply that. When a dog is left alone all day it needs stimulation. I would have a neighbor who is home come over and play with the dog during the day if it was my dog. Also, they need to exercise him in the morning and evenings and do something fun with him on the weekends. I don't think a pet dog needs to be bored and ignored. Even pets who aren't expected to do anything except be at home most of the time need to see more than just the walls of a house or a yard.

The puppy is very active so they are going to be less inclined to keep him in the house when they are home. Maybe it's just my dogs but I find they are happiest when they are with me and they can't wait for me to get home when I'm gone.
 

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Good post rerun. I wrote something yesterday and deleted it. But whatever. LuvShepherds has clarified his/her answer some.

Still, advice is a gift. If you cannot give it and then let them make their own decisions, and not take it as a personal attack if they do not follow your advice, then you should not give advice.

I think Lies said it best that we lose sight that many people are just buying a pet. If they know the neighbors, and the dogs used to produce the puppies, the chances are they will have an ok pet out of the deal. In fact, it may be no more likely to have serious health or behavioral issues than dogs carefully and closely bred to create a certain look or specific traits for the ring or the field.

Should we all run out and buy our next pet from the nearest neighbor who puts two dogs together to make puppies? God forbid. But it is true that there are a LOT of people out there that really cannot justify paying 1k to 1.5k for a pet, when they are really not in anyway involved in the dog world.

Buying a pet from neighbors, is better than buying a pet from a pet store. I met in a puppy class a lady who worked in a shelter, and she bought her puppy from a pet store, but she would never buy from a breeder. Sometimes you just have to shake your head and walk away.
 

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Also, what if (not in this case) but on the off chance that one of those neighbor puppies ends up with a neighbor that does decide to get into the trial world and really gets into the dog world. They could come back and explain to the neighbor that what they are doing is wrong, sometimes a neighbor's judgement is all that it takes to get someone to stop doing something they don't think is wrong. Friends, you can get rid of and replace, but a neighbor is there no matter what and many people really don't like to be judged by their neighbors.

I think luvshepherds just meant that its bad to support the neighbor with any money. Anytime you give money to someone like that it makes them think, "why not do it again?" So I understand where they are coming from. Also with a neighbor you again have more push if the dog develops issues, a year or two down the line you have a dog with HD, or a dog that's constantly sick, well you know exactly where the breeder lives and although you don't have a contract for a replacement dog, you have the power of neighborhood gossip.

It's been an observation of mine for a while that people on this forum tend to forget that 99% of the American public doesn't look at their dogs the same way we do. It's been an issue brought up every time ASL gets bashed for not having enough drive, or the lack of schutzhund titling is used as a "red flag", would it make for a better breeding world if everyone thought like most member of this forum, absolutely, but that's never going to happen.
 
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