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@WNGD, it all depends on what the correction is that we’re talking about. I don’t see what my dog would learn by having random objects thrown at him. I watched some guy on YouTube, I don’t know his name and frankly I don’t care to know his name, use an e-collar to teach a puppy not to lick the dishes in the dishwasher. Something as simple as keeping your dishwasher closed or teaching your dog what “no” means would be perfectly sufficient in my opinion.

Imo, there’s no middle ground when it comes to owners who are using excessive force when it’s simply not needed, and it doesn’t equal teaching. When I see some of the awful trainers and advice that people are getting from YouTube and certain TV shows, I just like to throw in my 2 cents once in a while to say that you can take a gentle approach and still have a well behaved dog and less frustration as an owner.
 

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@WNGD, it all depends on what the correction is that we’re talking about. I don’t see what my dog would learn by having random objects thrown at him. I watched some guy on YouTube, I don’t know his name and frankly I don’t care to know his name, use an e-collar to teach a puppy not to lick the dishes in the dishwasher. Something as simple as keeping your dishwasher closed or teaching your dog what “no” means would be perfectly sufficient in my opinion.

Imo, there’s no middle ground when it comes to owners who are using excessive force when it’s simply not needed, and it doesn’t equal teaching. When I see some of the awful trainers and advice that people are getting from YouTube and certain TV shows, I just like to throw in my 2 cents once in a while to say that you can take a gentle approach and still have a well behaved dog and less frustration as an owner.
That's why I specifically state "fair firm age appropriate" corrections and always do. Nowhere are we talking about excessive force which again, is why I suggested there's a middle ground. That's OK, I think what you and I would define as excessive or abusive is different anyways.

I have corrected my dog when necessary yet have never hit, shocked or bonked him. And we have the best relationship imaginable. I like to think I successfully live in the middle ground, which is a huge area to run around in.

I get what you're saying, Cheers.
 

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It is so freaking sad how a very happy open expression Tony was reduced to a freightened suspicious GSD. If anyone watching that did not see the body language difference from before he was bonked to after, I urge you to please learn a dogs body language.

Also Note how hard he is tr6ing to compensate for the damage he did via baby talk and trying to validate appeasement signals as open happy communication from Tony The GSD.

that dog couldn’t get far enough away from him and even the person who opened the door made a hard intake of breath.

note how slowly Tony comes when called. How he tries to make himself small.

If Tony didn’t say it loud enough that the bonker does do damage then you aren’t listening.
It was so sad, and so apparent that the dog was giving a submissive and fearful response afterwards. Some of us have GSDs that act like that genetically, and it is embarrassing because we think people will believe that we have abused the dog. I can love a dog that is fearful and afraid of me, but it is truly hard to have an animal that you love, that you would starve so that they have good food, that you would jump into a river in February for, be afraid of you. This clip made me want to smack that guy with a 2 x 4 and that, friends, is why I could never have a business training dogs.
 

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"One of the biggest arguments the force free dog training advocates have against the use of any kind of corrective measures or tools in dog training is that, um, they perpetrate the myth that if you correct your dogs or punish your dog or use an e-collar or prong collar or anything like that, that you are somehow going to cause damage to your relationship with the dog ..." - Haz Othman
 

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I’ll be honest @Jen84, I’m not a fan of the ratio you have for quotes to actual experience in your posts. I know we aren’t supposed to argue but I’m not sure that ratio helps most situations. And you’ve received feedback from members on that feeling.

I wouldn’t use a bonker or noise device to correct my dog. Even if you have a GSD with solid nerves but suspicion, that could have unintended consequences.
For example: I wouldn’t correct my dog counter surfing by startling them with a can of coins thrown at them because if we are in a restaurant later in life, I don’t want them thinking a pile of plates dropped in the kitchen is a correction.
I’d rather fair, handler delivered corrections.
 

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I’ll be honest @Jen84, I’m not a fan of the ratio you have for quotes to actual experience in your posts. I know we aren’t supposed to argue but I’m not sure that ratio helps most situations. And you’ve received feedback from members on that feeling.

I wouldn’t use a bonker or noise device to correct my dog. Even if you have a GSD with solid nerves but suspicion, that could have unintended consequences.
For example: I wouldn’t correct my dog counter surfing by startling them with a can of coins thrown at them because if we are in a restaurant later in life, I don’t want them thinking a pile of plates dropped in the kitchen is a correction.
I’d rather fair, handler delivered corrections.
I posted the video in response to post #80, which I liked:


People talk as if correcting their dogs will somehow "damage their relationship" all the time and honestly, it gets more of an eye roll from me. I see these owners often walked all over by their dogs and many of the dogs "turning on their owners" as you put it stems from a lack of leadership and proper training as often as what's more like the abuse you describe.
And yes I have experience correcting my dog lol.

Any more questions, feel free to ask ;)
 

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What experience do you have with the technique other than quoting others or posting video links? I thought we were specifically talking about the bonking technique that was touted in the OP.

You can also like a trainer, but not necessarily ascribe to 100% of their ideas/ideals.
I have "scruffed" two out of three German Shepherd dogs I have owned.

Can I please ask what your experience is ?
 

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Is this the first time you’ve heard of a bonker? Why haven’t you used this method on your own dogs?
No.

Never had to and I think there are better options. I will say this, nothing wrong with keeping a towel in the bottom of the tool box even though it is 99.9999% unlikely that I would need to use it.

I was on the lake today and noticed my dog at the back of the boat trying to bite the stream of water exhaust coming from the engine. He is not suppose to be back there as it is dangerous. So I told him "NO" and gave him a light kick in the back of the leg. If someone videotaped that, people would scream "abuse" LOL
 

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No.

Never had to and I think there are better options. I will say this, nothing wrong with keeping a towel in the bottom of the tool box even though it is 99.9999% unlikely that I would need to use it.

I was on the lake today and noticed my dog at the back of the boat trying to bite the stream of water exhaust coming from the engine. He is not suppose to be back there as it is dangerous. So I told him "NO" and gave him a light kick in the back of the leg. If someone videotaped that, people would scream "abuse" LOL
This aren’t emergent situations where these people are caught off guard. These are often situations that are set up. One of the things with that Haz quote. Correctly applied adversives won’t hurt your relationship with your dog. Unduly harsh corrections, especially consistently used will absolutely hurt your relationship with the dog. What’s funny is Larry recommends Gary Wilkes and yet the first comment on that video is a link to another of his videos talking about fixing dogs that have received overly harsh corrections.
 

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This aren’t emergent situations where these people are caught off guard. These are often situations that are set up. One of the things with that Haz quote. Correctly applied adversives won’t hurt your relationship with your dog. Unduly harsh corrections, especially consistently used will absolutely hurt your relationship with the dog. What’s funny is Larry recommends Gary Wilkes and yet the first comment on that video is a link to another of his videos talking about fixing dogs that have received overly harsh corrections.
I agree with that.
 

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I was on the lake today and noticed my dog at the back of the boat trying to bite the stream of water exhaust coming from the engine. He is not suppose to be back there as it is dangerous. So I told him "NO" and gave him a light kick in the back of the leg. If someone videotaped that, people would scream "abuse" LOL
Jen, I was once in a situation where I had to clobber my dog over the head with a canoe paddle to keep her from jumping out of the canoe, and likely dumping us both in very cold water, which would possibly have been fatal.

She was a GSD that really had a mind of her own, and yelling at her did absolutely nothing to break her focus on the dock she was trying to jump to. As a matter of fact, I had to hit her THREE times before she paid any attention to me at all! I made sure from then on that her leash was always within reach when we were in the canoe together!

It was an act of desperation, and it's really best to avoid situations like this.
 

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Jen, I was once in a situation where I had to clobber my dog over the head with a canoe paddle to keep her from jumping out of the canoe, and likely dumping us both in very cold water, which would possibly have been fatal.

She was a GSD that really had a mind of her own, and yelling at her did absolutely nothing to break her focus on the dock she was trying to jump to. As a matter of fact, I had to hit her THREE times before she paid any attention to me at all! I made sure from then on that her leash was always within reach when we were in the canoe together!

It was an act of desperation, and it's really best to avoid situations like this.
You put an untrained GSD in a canoe? That's insane. I've been in a canoe. I had enough trouble getting in all by myself and not turning the darn thing over. I can see myself shifting enough to smack a dog with a paddle and I'd be swallowing water. Nope, that's crazy.
 

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@WNGD, I also get your point, but I’m not referring to people who understand the difference, which is why I specifically talked about inexperienced owners.

It’s easy to watch a trainer online and think that it’s normal to shock your dog or use a bonker for ANY behavior that you’re having trouble with. Dog jumps? Zap him. Dog sniffs during a walk? Hit him over the head with a bonker. Dog looks at you funny? Alpha roll him.

Anyone can be a dog trainer and anyone can start a YouTube channel. And when I hear some people say that they have 30 years of experience as a dog trainer, it does nothing for me. Just because you have 30 years of experience doing something, doesn’t mean that you’ve been doing it well or know what you’re doing.

And the bonker is really not some amazing new concept, it’s nothing more than the rolled up newspaper or slipper that people used back in the days to whack their dogs.

Many people don’t know that dog trainers don’t have to be licensed or complete any kind of training, because it’s an unregulated field. Personally, I prefer Ian Dunbar and Patricia McConnell for general dog and training advice, because they offer an educated opinion. And that’s not knocking all dog trainers, because there are some great trainers, but they might not be the ones with a million followers on YouTube or their own TV show.
 

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I have "scruffed" two out of three German Shepherd dogs I have owned.

Can I please ask what your experience is ?
Varik is my 5th GSD over 45 years (I've never kept multiples so these are back to backs). Trained them all myself, then proofed them during group classes. I believe in a balanced approach to training shrug. I don't think bonking is useful, not in the way that is touted in the early posts and videos. I would absolutely bonk my dog if it was to save his life, though. Unfortunately, I don't have a handy video to post for anything I've said. grin
 

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@WNGD, I also get your point, but I’m not referring to people who understand the difference, which is why I specifically talked about inexperienced owners.

It’s easy to watch a trainer online and think that it’s normal to shock your dog or use a bonker for ANY behavior that you’re having trouble with. Dog jumps? Zap him. Dog sniffs during a walk? Hit him over the head with a bonker. Dog looks at you funny? Alpha roll him.

Anyone can be a dog trainer and anyone can start a YouTube channel. And when I hear some people say that they have 30 years of experience as a dog trainer, it does nothing for me. Just because you have 30 years of experience doing something, doesn’t mean that you’ve been doing it well or know what you’re doing.

And the bonker is really not some amazing new concept, it’s nothing more than the rolled up newspaper or slipper that people used back in the days to whack their dogs.

Many people don’t know that dog trainers don’t have to be licensed or complete any kind of training, because it’s an unregulated field. Personally, I prefer Ian Dunbar and Patricia McConnell for general dog and training advice, because they offer an educated opinion. And that’s not knocking all dog trainers, because there are some great trainers, but they might not be the ones with a million followers on YouTube or their own TV show.
No argument from me here.

I like Stonnie Dennis and McCann dog training but I don't follow any trainers specifically. Haz is a bit too physical a trainer for me but nothing that bothers me and I much prefer it to soft inconsistent training.
 

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You put an untrained GSD in a canoe? That's insane. I've been in a canoe. I had enough trouble getting in all by myself and not turning the darn thing over. I can see myself shifting enough to smack a dog with a paddle and I'd be swallowing water. Nope, that's crazy.
Nowhere in that post will you see the words 'untrained'. My husband and I actually spent considerable time training her both on the water in warm weather and on dry land! But she was - how shall I put this? - not the easiest of dogs to train, which is probably why someone dumped her on the streets when she was 9 months old.

Sometimes I used to joke you had to hit her over the head with a 2x4 just to get her attention. And this incident shows it wasn't that much of a joke, either!

All my dogs have canoed with me. This was the only one who actually dumped us in the water!

574843
 

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I think inexperienced owners all have to start with positive only and motivational training, which does not mean inconsistent by the way, and learn to understand and connect with their young dog first with help of their body language, voice, timing, play, observation. How can one properly correct their dog without understanding the impact of the correction on their dog?

It’s absolutely possible to hurt your dogs feelings and erode trust. Why is this surprising? Not all dogs are hard headed, not all are forgiving either.
 
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