[Brookito]

I have searched for related posts to my situations but haven’t found anything the fits my situation really, so I thought I would post instead to see what feedback other might have.

We Are Family of 4, my wife and two kids 15 and 6 and Max (Our white GSD) turned 7 in December. It's been difficult for us and for him I'm sure because he only wants me and basically tolerates the rest of the family. If he could have it his own way he would want everyone to move out so he has me all to himself.

Unfortunately, he has bitten/nipped people in the past, my wife included. She's not afraid of him but she just doesn't trust him. Around the house my wife and my kids know what to do and not to do with him. For example, if he is thirsty he will lay down in front of the toilet until someone opens it for him. The kids know to say "out" and not corner him and he knows he's not allowed to go in until everyone goes out. Other incidences were either out of fear or people just approached him and went right in to pet his head and didn't know not to. He's deceptive in a way because he is gorgeous dog but he just doesn't let anyone just pet him. (Some of last winter pics attached) There's only a handful of people he does like to be pet by and when they show up he's wicked excited to see him and can't get enough of them. For new comers, I tell them to keep their hands in their pocket and just pretend he doesn't exist, he will smell you and that might just be the extent of the introduction. Or he might decide to take the relationship further, each one's a mystery. But 95% of the time he will choose ignore/flight and chill in his corner. Sometimes he'll try to get into the corner like he's afraid when my son's friend comes over because he's uncomfortable people being here. Some of it is fear based and with conditioning methods we have never really been able to resolve.

I would be happy to answer any questions you have about our situation.

In summary,
-He's very smart.
-A good dog that wants to be loved. (Almost 100% by me, which is the problem and growing with age)
-Toy crazy. If you have a Ball, he'll do whatever you want for it. (It does bring out the dominance in him.)
-Very well trained with basic commands. (But if you have a ball he just does them faster)
-He is great off leash, (With regards to introductions, I always preferred him off leash around crowds bc he has flight option available and bc ppl don't try and pet him while next to me.)
-He's good with other dogs as long as a ball isn't involved. He has hung with a pack before (he was younger then not sure how he would be now, I think he would like it and probably be good for him)
-Since about 1/5yrs he has been vocal, meaning he growls when uncomfortable and if given the chance he chooses flight and leaves the room still. (I've gotten mixed reviews about this one over the years how to deal with it, and at this point we've just accepted it and it's his way of saying, "Stop guys I don't like this! Let me out of here")
-He has chased a couple of Amazon people because they ran. (I keep telling them, don’t run and he won't have anything to chase. Problem is it’s not always the same person.)

I have several trainers over the years to address our concerns without success. One recently in particular whom I was told was very good, however he asked me how old he was and quickly declined to work with him. I get his points about "teaching old dogs new tricks" being he is too stubborn to achieve success at his age. As much as I understand his approach, I still have to make a decision and a difficult one either way.

He isn't happy as he could be, mostly because he can't have me all the time. He wants love, but only from me. Admittedly, at times his quirky behavior makes me resentful he's not comfortable with our own family who he sees and knows every day of his life and pose no threat. As a result, he can't have the freedom he once had which not only stresses him out but also limits exercise. I walk him late night around the block so I can let him off the leash and throw the ball for him. It’s frustrating for me bc I have to shelter him. As a consequence to his special needs I have had to cancel it vacations their family with our family because I couldn't find someone to watch him or willing to.

So basically, I have some choices to make. One choice I'm not willing to accept yet is euthanization which my brother-in-law suggests because he says I'm just passing the problem onto someone else. Personally, I would like to find a place for him, a sanctuary of sorts exists somewhere. I live in New England and was curious if there is such a place?

As it stands now, my current renting situation is rapidly becoming not a viable option for his special needs and I need to figure out a plan for the second half of his life. I'm curious from the GSD community's perspective if there are options I haven't considered.

And thank you in advance for your contribution.

Best regards,

Brooke&Max

 

[car2ner]

He is gorgeous. I can see why everyone would want to stick their hands into his warm fur. It seems you've done well telling people to just put their hands in their pockets.
Tough call. I understand your brother suggesting not passing on his problems to another family. I also understand not wanting to euthanize an otherwise healthy dog. If you do find a rescue, sanctuary he'll probably end up as a kennel dog, for everyone's safety.
Have you contacted any GSD rescues?

 

[dogma13]

From what you posted it seems your beautiful Max exhibits two issues that he deals with the best he can because it's been successful for him over seven years.#1 is resource guarding #2 he's nervy/fearful.If my dog tended to guard me I would send him to his 'place' or crate,even leave the area myself sometimes. Outdoors I would block him from getting between me and anyone,possibly putting him in a sit or down. Secondly, nobody would be allowed to approach and touch him when out and about. At home no staring into his eyes or grabbing,forced affection. Calling/encouraging him to come instead of going to him by all of your family members. He growls because that's all he knows how to communicate when he's uncomfortable.Nips will follow if his body language and growls aren't understood.
You and your family of course sincerely did the best you could do.Since I don't actually know your dog this is all conjecture on my part. It would take more work to turn this around now since it's become such a pattern, but I believe it could be done. Just my two cents.

 

[tim_s_adams]

What are his "special needs" that you refer to?

 

[David Winners]

This is a nervy dog. The toughest guys to train IMO. I think things could be better with the right trainer and a lot of work. Re-homing a dog with a bite history is rarely ethical. There is no sanctuary for fearful dogs that bite. My suggestion is to find the right trainer in your area and adjust your housing situation to suit the needs of your family.

 

[Brookito]

He is gorgeous. I can see why everyone would want to stick their hands into his warm fur. It seems you've done well telling people to just put their hands in their pockets.
Tough call. I understand your brother suggesting not passing on his problems to another family. I also understand not wanting to euthanize an otherwise healthy dog. If you do find a rescue, sanctuary he'll probably end up as a kennel dog, for everyone's safety.
Have you contacted any GSD rescues?

Thank you. I haven't actually, rescues are not really the Avenue I would like to go down with him because given his history etc.

 

[Brookito]

From what you posted it seems your beautiful Max exhibits two issues that he deals with the best he can because it's been successful for him over seven years.#1 is resource guarding #2 he's nervy/fearful.If my dog tended to guard me I would send him to his 'place' or crate,even leave the area myself sometimes. Outdoors I would block him from getting between me and anyone,possibly putting him in a sit or down. Secondly, nobody would be allowed to approach and touch him when out and about. At home no staring into his eyes or grabbing,forced affection. Calling/encouraging him to come instead of going to him by all of your family members. He growls because that's all he knows how to communicate when he's uncomfortable.Nips will follow if his body language and growls aren't understood.
You and your family of course sincerely did the best you could do.Since I don't actually know your dog this is all conjecture on my part. It would take more work to turn this around now since it's become such a pattern, but I believe it could be done. Just my two cents.

Hi Terry, You would be correct on those 2 issues and there are probably a couple more in there. Question for you, if I may.
One mysterious behavior we have never been able to figure out, past trainers included. In fact one trainer said he had the same problem with his dog but can never figure it out.
He will come up to you and push or lean his side against you as if he's asking you to pet him, but then once you start petting him he growls and the moves away.
People usually like fine if you don't want to be pet then why did you come over here. My guess is it's energy-related.
I've never never seen a dog react like that before we can't figure out

Another example if let's say I'm outside brushing him and he sees people watching, even from 30ft away, he will start to growl and get anxious as I'm brushing, him he only relaxes when he knows that nobody's watching him get affection of any kind, it's like he wants it attention and affection but he doesn't want anyone to know that he likes it or watch.

 

[Brookito]

What are his "special needs" that you refer to?

Sorry I'm using the term "special needs" loosely. Because of his insecurities, we have to cater to them and keep him and other people safe. We have protocol in the household for example that we have because he's a liability.
Special needs include

• I am the beginning of the middle any end (To the extent the rest of the family refers to him as my "dog" I am his alpha. We got him as a family dog initally, but as time went he rejected the rest. They eventually lost interest and trust and on occasion feared him. So everything defaulted to me...
• We live in a rental and with Max we don't allow our kids to have play dates because of that "what if".
• We are unable to go on vacation because finding someone to care for him is difficult. And after our last pet sitter service dropped us after 2days while we were away in North Carolina 12 hours away told me I needed to find somebody else because they didn't trust them him.
• If somebody does meet him I have to give them specific instructions on how to be when they are around him what to do what not to do.

I love him to death, but if I'm being honest all the precaution and worry about do's and don't for him, he has become a source of much stress and I know he feels stress too as a result of mine. It's not fair he should be happy. But the only way he's happy is if he only has me, and that's not possible. So the stress level is definitely outweighing the love and affection within the household which he also feels.

 

[Brookito]

This is a nervy dog. The toughest guys to train IMO. I think things could be better with the right trainer and a lot of work. Re-homing a dog with a bite history is rarely ethical. There is no sanctuary for fearful dogs that bite. My suggestion is to find the right trainer in your area and adjust your housing situation to suit the needs of your family.

Well said, ty.
The right trainer and a lot of work means $$$ which I am not position to fund atm.

 

[3ymum]

I am not an experience dog owner so take my comments with a pinch of salt.

When he leans against you, how does it normally happen? I mean what he was doing right before that? Were your family around doing something? If he leans against you but refuses being pet, he may just want some reassurance from you that he is scared as you said he is a fearful dog. Can it be something trigger him to be frightened of something, even it's something you think is no big deal?

'it's like he wants it attention and affection but he doesn't want anyone to know that he likes it or watch.'

I don't think dogs would think like this, even though it makes sense to us, human. In his mind, he is trying to guard that 'attention', he sees people as potential threat to take it away from him.

 

[AZdoglover]

View attachment 595923

I have searched for related posts to my situations but haven’t found anything the fits my situation really, so I thought I would post instead to see what feedback other might have.

We Are Family of 4, my wife and two kids 15 and 6 and Max (Our white GSD) turned 7 in December. It's been difficult for us and for him I'm sure because he only wants me and basically tolerates the rest of the family. If he could have it his own way he would want everyone to move out so he has me all to himself.

Unfortunately, he has bitten/nipped people in the past, my wife included. She's not afraid of him but she just doesn't trust him. Around the house my wife and my kids know what to do and not to do with him. For example, if he is thirsty he will lay down in front of the toilet until someone opens it for him. The kids know to say "out" and not corner him and he knows he's not allowed to go in until everyone goes out. Other incidences were either out of fear or people just approached him and went right in to pet his head and didn't know not to. He's deceptive in a way because he is gorgeous dog but he just doesn't let anyone just pet him. (Some of last winter pics attached) There's only a handful of people he does like to be pet by and when they show up he's wicked excited to see him and can't get enough of them. For new comers, I tell them to keep their hands in their pocket and just pretend he doesn't exist, he will smell you and that might just be the extent of the introduction. Or he might decide to take the relationship further, each one's a mystery. But 95% of the time he will choose ignore/flight and chill in his corner. Sometimes he'll try to get into the corner like he's afraid when my son's friend comes over because he's uncomfortable people being here. Some of it is fear based and with conditioning methods we have never really been able to resolve.

I would be happy to answer any questions you have about our situation.

In summary,
-He's very smart.
-A good dog that wants to be loved. (Almost 100% by me, which is the problem and growing with age)
-Toy crazy. If you have a Ball, he'll do whatever you want for it. (It does bring out the dominance in him.)
-Very well trained with basic commands. (But if you have a ball he just does them faster)
-He is great off leash, (With regards to introductions, I always preferred him off leash around crowds bc he has flight option available and bc ppl don't try and pet him while next to me.)
-He's good with other dogs as long as a ball isn't involved. He has hung with a pack before (he was younger then not sure how he would be now, I think he would like it and probably be good for him)
-Since about 1/5yrs he has been vocal, meaning he growls when uncomfortable and if given the chance he chooses flight and leaves the room still. (I've gotten mixed reviews about this one over the years how to deal with it, and at this point we've just accepted it and it's his way of saying, "Stop guys I don't like this! Let me out of here")
-He has chased a couple of Amazon people because they ran. (I keep telling them, don’t run and he won't have anything to chase. Problem is it’s not always the same person.)

I have several trainers over the years to address our concerns without success. One recently in particular whom I was told was very good, however he asked me how old he was and quickly declined to work with him. I get his points about "teaching old dogs new tricks" being he is too stubborn to achieve success at his age. As much as I understand his approach, I still have to make a decision and a difficult one either way.

He isn't happy as he could be, mostly because he can't have me all the time. He wants love, but only from me. Admittedly, at times his quirky behavior makes me resentful he's not comfortable with our own family who he sees and knows every day of his life and pose no threat. As a result, he can't have the freedom he once had which not only stresses him out but also limits exercise. I walk him late night around the block so I can let him off the leash and throw the ball for him. It’s frustrating for me bc I have to shelter him. As a consequence to his special needs I have had to cancel it vacations their family with our family because I couldn't find someone to watch him or willing to.

So basically, I have some choices to make. One choice I'm not willing to accept yet is euthanization which my brother-in-law suggests because he says I'm just passing the problem onto someone else. Personally, I would like to find a place for him, a sanctuary of sorts exists somewhere. I live in New England and was curious if there is such a place?

As it stands now, my current renting situation is rapidly becoming not a viable option for his special needs and I need to figure out a plan for the second half of his life. I'm curious from the GSD community's perspective if there are options I haven't considered.

And thank you in advance for your contribution.

Best regards,

Brooke&Max

View attachment 595927
View attachment 595925
View attachment 595926
View attachment 595924

I believe your dog has assumed the role of alpha, at least around the other members of your family. He's both a control freak and anxious, and these behaviors are common in a dog that has assumed the role of pack leader himself. He knows there are people in the house that are afraid of him and let him get away with certain behaviors, and he uses this to his advantage.

The dog does not need to go away; the relationship that you and your family have with your dog needs to be fixed. I highly recommend Don Sullivan's complete dog training program. Purchasing his dog training program involves both an online course, DVDs, and his dog training equipment. Academy — The DogFather®

https://www.youtube.com/@DonTheDogFather/videos

I hope this helps!

 

[David Winners]

Well said, ty.
The right trainer and a lot of work means $$$ which I am not position to fund atm.

Ok, so educate yourself. I'm primarily a self taught trainer. The bulk of my education was reading books and watching videos.

I like Michael Ellis for new trainers. He explains things well and you get to watch a lot of new people make mistakes in his videos.

 

[David Winners]

I believe your dog has assumed the role of alpha, at least around the other members of your family. He's both a control freak and anxious, and these behaviors are common in a dog that has assumed the role of pack leader himself. He knows there are people in the house that are afraid of him and let him get away with certain behaviors, and he uses this to his advantage.

The dog does not need to go away; the relationship that you and your family have with your dog needs to be fixed. I highly recommend Don Sullivan's complete dog training program. Purchasing his dog training program involves both an online course, DVDs, and his dog training equipment. Academy — The DogFather®

https://www.youtube.com/@DonTheDogFather/videos

I hope this helps!

Do you have experience with this program?

 

[AZdoglover]

Ok, so educate yourself. I'm primarily a self taught trainer. The bulk of my education was reading books and watching videos.

I like Michael Ellis for new trainers. He explains things well and you get to watch a lot of new people make mistakes in his videos.

Do you have experience with this program?

I do to a degree. I'm working my way through Don's online trainer course now and soon I will be doing hands-on work with my neighbor's dog practicing what I'm learning from Don. Like you, I'm primarily a self-taught dog trainer. My philosophy is based on the ideas of multiple different trainers.

 

[dogma13]

Looking at your other posts here you've said before that you've only owned one dog in your life which was "a sweet submissive Aussie". It's really disingenuous to infer that you're an experienced dog trainer. Sharing your actual experience with your Aussie might be of help to some members with issues that you've dealt with yourself.

 

[AZdoglover]

Looking at your other posts here you've said before that you've only owned one dog in your life which was "a sweet submissive Aussie". It's really disingenuous to infer that you're an experienced dog trainer. Sharing your actual experience with your Aussie might be of help to some members with issues that you've dealt with yourself.

I have limited experience as a dog trainer. However, my experience working with dogs goes WAY beyond me previously having owned a dog.

 

[dogma13]

I have limited experience as a dog trainer. However, my experience working with dogs goes WAY beyond me previously having owned a dog.

Please share your actual experience when it's appropriate.It's difficult to take seriously a glowing review of a new to you online program.

 

[Baileyshuman]

I’m not a dog trainer or expert - just the owner of a fairly difficult dog. Bailey shares some/most of these “special needs” so I thought I’d share what I do. I’m not sure if I might have missed it but do you use any kind of management with him?

Teaching Bailey to settle in his crate and a strong “place” command have been invaluable for us, especially as he’s a dog, that isn’t all too happy for random visitors. That might solve the issue of not being able to have guests over.

Muzzle training has been great for us too. People are less likely to touch your dog, more likely to cross the street and less likely to talk to you - which honestly are all positives for me. It also provides the extra protection that should your dog react or turn to bite, nothing can happen.

Now I know that you said you don’t have a big of budget to get a trainer, but finding a good trainer that you trust can open up a lot of new opportunities. My own trainer lives two hours away, and therefore, I tend to flit between trainers here in London, and them, in the countryside. However, they are the only people I would trust to board my dog with.

And when it comes to meeting people, if he’s nervy and doesn’t like to interact with new people, as annoying as it is, just don’t make him. When there’s new people in your house or on a walk, give him a command “place”, “heel”, whatever and enforce it. My dog, Bailey, does not like dogs, not a big fan at all. We try to walk with a new dog every two weeks to work on his neutrality, but the two dogs don’t meet. And the expectation is always just
-calm- (which in all honesty, we’ve yet to fully achieve) instead of play. It can take a good bit of effort, but we’ve seen some good results over the last year and it’s only really going up, I think.

I’m currently doing the Obsidian K9 course 7-day free trial and it’s given me full access to hundreds of training videos to peruse through, so that might be worth checking out too.

 

[Brookito]

I am not an experience dog owner so take my comments with a pinch of salt.

When he leans against you, how does it normally happen? I mean what he was doing right before that? Were your family around doing something? If he leans against you but refuses being pet, he may just want some reassurance from you that he is scared as you said he is a fearful dog. Can it be something trigger him to be frightened of something, even it's something you think is no big deal?

'it's like he wants it attention and affection but he doesn't want anyone to know that he likes it or watch.'

I don't think dogs would think like this, even though it makes sense to us, human. In his mind, he is trying to guard that 'attention', he sees people as potential threat to take it away from him.

"he sees people as potential threat to take it away from him."

This is exactly right even people in my family he doesn't like it when people hug me or be excited with me. I was being funny when maybe it didn't translate.
But in regards to him growling just after requesting what seems to be affection is still at Large.
I should also mention it also makes him growl if he is pet by more than one person at a time.


Here's an example:

We could be in the living room with casual conversation, you on one side of the room and me or our family, doesn't matter really. You could be sitting in the living room chair and he causally comes into the room and puts his body right in front of you deliberately (not a full lean, but def against your legs) as if without question he's asking you to pet him. Once you start petting him, he looks back at the hand and growls, I will say he's never nipped from this behavior but when he does it. people then rightfully so become fearful or aware of him from that interaction and personally I am baffled b/c I've never seen it and knowledgeable folk I've consulted haven't either.

Note:
It's not territorial either because we can be all standing in street or in a driveway talking to people and he could come up casually and put his side against you and pet him and he'll growl. We thought it might have just been territorial.

 

[Brookito]

Ok, so educate yourself. I'm primarily a self taught trainer. The bulk of my education was reading books and watching videos.

I like Michael Ellis for new trainers. He explains things well and you get to watch a lot of new people make mistakes in his videos.

I could not agree with you more in regards to education Since this began in 2017 it's been a constant learning curve.

I should have included some background.

Dogs have been a huge part of my life my whole life, but not my wife into kits At one point years ago we were part of Training Club I would consider myself comfortably confident in the K9 ways. Alot of his upbring was raised on NILIF program and still do some ways.


the problem is this, my wife = 106lbs son = 100lbs daughter = 50lbs and Max = 115-120lbs.

hey have all thrown in the towel and we have just learned to live with him and his behaviors we just know what he likes and we know what he doesn't like and the kids know how to deal with it and everyone in the family refers to him as my dog for years now.

Here's the thing it's not that they don't want to be close to Max or love him they've just given up because he won't let them it's just that simple and over the years at one point or another he has made each of them at one point or another fear Him. They don't walk around the house my kids don't walk around the house day after day in fear of May Max they just kind of ignore him. If he's laying in the middle of the floor they just say Max move and he does and he go somewhere else

If he is outside and on the leash if you don't know him he makes you he runs towards you and he smells you out People want to pet him because he's beautiful when the best thing they could do is just pretend he's invisible.

Like the Amazon people I can't leave them outside anymore because most of them don't know you're not supposed to run cuz he will catch you. One amazon lady approached him while he was on the rope. In the very last moment of petting him I saw her second-guess petting him then she pulled away real quick and he didn't like that and he lunged at her and got her hand and tore her coat. That really confirmed it how much a liability he's becoming.

Here's the thing if you were to walk right up to the door with your hands in your pocket and pretend he wasn't even there you be able to walk right through the house probably.

He's good at sniffing out dominant personalities I mean really confident K9 characters. in contrast to the Amazon lady, different occasion another Amazon guy who has three pit bulls and when he comes to drop stuff off he approaches the house like he just doesn't give a f*** and Max every once in awhile shares a moment of affection with him.