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Discussion Starter #1
I put it in quotes, because of course it's not a real breed. I was doing some searching last night and found that many BYB's will cross the Malinois and the GSD and call the resulting offspring German Malinois.

The name aside, it sounds like a good cross if the right aspects were kept in mind. It sounds like this is done overseas to produce sport and working dogs. Essentially a stockier more powerful Malinois; when the results turn out as desired. Of course puppies are a crapshoot and you could end up with the worst traits of both.

Are there any legit breeders in the states crossing the two, or are they primarily just BYB's? Obviously there are going to be many on both sides opposed to it because essentially you're creating a mutt, but if the lines of both sire and dam are known and the two are carefully matched, it seems to me it's not much more of a crapshoot than crossing two of the same breed. IMHO all breeds were created from the mixing and selective breeding of various breeds, so if the right goals and reasons are behind it, I'm not opposed to selectively crossing two breeds to create a different breed (not necessarily a SUPERIOR breed, just different). One could argue the point of why cross them? Just get a GSD or a Mal. But then again, out of the hundreds of dog breeds the same could be argued in many cases there as well. Why get X breed or create Y breed when you could just get Z breed.
 

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I guess Rafi is one of these...although Rafi met a mal trainer a couple of weeks ago and the trainer said he's all mal. Every mal owner who has met him has said the same thing.

From what I've read mal breeders who are breeding for the best all around working/sports dog liberally mix in gsd and don't consider this a mix (because it's been consistently done) so it seems like a semantical question and also very difficult to understand the definition of a "purebred" mal! :crazy:
 

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How come when one is not in keeping with what the AKC/CKC has decided is right, we label them BYBs? :)
If someone knows what they're doing, who's to say they're not a reputable breeder? (Doubt there is an exorbitant amount of these out there, but just sayin')
We've been breeding dogs for 400,000 years (depending on who you ask), so how come we're suddenly done now, all breeds are closed, thanks for coming out! :)
Uses for dogs are evolving every day, why should we stop looking at new breeds? I'd love to see a non-shedding GSD in my lifetime! ...Not a shepradoodle, curly shepherd or shepoopy but an actual GSD that just doesn't shed! LOL ...and if it's not too much to ask, one with perfect hips/elbows/eyes and lives upwards of 20 years. Have at 'er BYBs! ;)
 

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A LOT of the KNPV dogs in The Netherlands are Mal/GSD crosses. Seems for a while that a lot were being imported for LEO work, but I think that's not so true anymore.

And then those dogs do get bred in the states, but usually by BYBs, like you said. The Dutch Shepherd Rescue had 7 puppies that were the product of a Malinois/GSD LEO dog, bred to a Malinois bitch that wasn't anything special. I went to look, thinking of adopting one of them. They were 4 months old and already huge! I'd probably have one of them if the first puppy hadn't run up to bite Balto.

Oh, yeah, he was just doing it thinking he was going to make a lot of money selling to police departments and didn't sell a single pup. Thankfully, the NADSR agreed to take them and they all found great pet homes.

Are you seriously looking for one?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
How come when one is not in keeping with what the AKC/CKC has decided is right, we label them BYBs? :)
I have personally never done that....have actually said in prior posts that I think the term BYB is thrown around quite a bit here. However, the mal/gsd crosses I have seen were true BYB's breeding pets to pets for the sole purpose of making some money or letting fifi have a litter. They weren't working dogs with any titles or health clearances. Thus, the term BYB was used.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I think it would be a great cross personally, but I suspect it would be difficult to get one that would be suitable for us given that there don't seem to be too many quality breeders here crossing the two, and the ones that did would likely be crossing them to produce high drive sport or LE dogs, whereas we prefer a low to medium drive dog. I suppose we could always get on a waitlist for a lower drive pup should one be born, but our next dog is likely going to be a sable male working line GSD so another other than that would be a long ways off. ;)
 

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I have personally never done that....have actually said in prior posts that I think the term BYB is thrown around quite a bit here.
Sorry, I didn't mean you were, I too just think the term is overused. That and "puppy mills". I like to reserve that word for when dogs are diseased, sitting in their own filth, rotting alive and mass producing puppies... Not just a breeder breeding a lot of dogs who in my unqualified opinion shouldn't be bred.
Anyhow, I'm deviating from the original post... Sorry :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Not a problem at all, we are on the same page regarding the terms BYB and puppy mill. I think they are overused a lot causing people to really label breeders who don't deserve the label. :)
 

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As an aside: Rafi is a throwaway dog and is just phenomenal. Very high drive but he's got an off switch. Take him outside and he's go, go, go but bring him in the house and tell him to settle on his bed and he does. Super biddable, always willing to learn, always willing to work or play, excellent with all people and animals but totally focused on me. He's to the point now where a squirrel, bunny or deer can run right in front of him and he will stay with me (if told to). If he does give chase he turns himself around and comes back to me immediately (with or without a recall) and puts himself in a sit-stay in front of me. He's a real thinking dog and I have honestly met few dogs with this good of a temperament.
 

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i came across an ad on craigslist the other day selling Black malinois. they claimed they were rare but the picture in the ad showing the parents was a PB GSD and a PB mal. The pups looked like bi color mals with GSD pup size. it was very strange. They had that goofy GSD pup body and a skinny lil head. the ad was flagged so i cant post it here.
 

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There is no reasonable reason to cross them. There is nothing you would gain by doing so except to be able to avoid having to meet any sort of standard for the qualities your dogs should bring. This means that anyone who does cross them is doing so purely for their own gratification or for the money, in other words they are a BYB.
 

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I saw a GSD/mal cross years ago at a Flinks seminar-my guess as to why someone would do it is for working ability-it looked like a good working dog-don't recall who the breeder was but somehow don't think they were BYB and don't think they were doing it for money-but not sure how anyone knows that or why it matters
 

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Well, the problem I see with crossing 2 breeds is that their is NO breed standard to follow in regards to temperment and structure. Granted, even with dogs being bred to a "standard" things can get screwy, but at least there is a certain amount of control.

Another issue I see is knowing what lines to cross in both breeds. It doesn't seem like there is really a way to "know" what is going to work out because they are not the same breed and it's essentially a big experiment.

And I guess I'd definitely want to know what they are trying to accomplish with the cross. They are 2 separate breeds for a reason. A Mal is generally referred to as a GSD on crack. So what would be the point of combining them? To just get a GSD on amphetamines?

Not to say that it can't or shouldn't be done to the absolute. But just because 2 dogs are good working dogs with slightly different temperments doesn't mean they should be combined.
 

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This kinda goes with the documentary i watched about pedigree dogs and the kennel club. Akc/ckc/ukc are just letters.to do justice to the breed and what it was developed for,to make a dog to be the best that it can be,health and temperment,to have the breeds true best interests at heart and not for profit or fashion,why not a byb if this is their goals?why not an akc/ckc member too if this is also their standard?
 

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i came across an ad on craigslist the other day selling Black malinois. they claimed they were rare but the picture in the ad showing the parents was a PB GSD and a PB mal.
I asked a Groenendael breeder friend of mine if she ever gets short-hairs, or heard of that. (wink, wink) Of course, she said that never happens, and no responsible breeder is going to breed a Malinois with a Groenendale. :( I think it would be great to have black Malinois.

There is a breeder of true black Malinois in South Africa, but the dogs are extremely aggressive and crazy, from what I've heard.
 
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