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Discussion Starter #1
OK this is a new one on me and I wanted to bounce it off others here for discussion. To be clear this is not my dogs...I was assigned a group of articles about dogs and one suggested was a training article on teaching patience. the description:

"Importance of patience
Have dog sit and wait before being fed 1-5 mins
Have dog sit on entrée mat when you come home start 30 seconds work up to 20 mins
Have dog sit at open door and wait for command to exit
Stop before crossing street
Books;
Cesar’s way – sesar millan. The other end of the leash – Patricia b McConnell, the art of raising a puppy – the monks of new skete
, dog speak by Cash Dibria,"

ok I've read Cesar's book (recently) and am somewhat familiar with the monks of New Skete...but I don't remember anywhere anyone recommending the dog sitting for 5 minutes before eating or 20 minutes at the door. Sitting calmly yes but not with a time limit. So for others out there - have you heard of this? What benefit from it? If my dogs had to sit and wait without moving for 5 minutes before being fed they'd starve. lol They'll sit and wait but when I start pulling food out the idea of sitting for 5 minutes just isn't going to happen.
So at what point is it realistic to ask what the dog is capable of doing and not ask what they can't do. Dogs that are eager to eat can sit quietly....and I know Cesar mentions his feeding regiment of all sitting until released to their bowls...and no taking from anyone else. I will admit mine are not there yet.

So are my expectations too low? As a writer and a dog owner I'd love to hear what others think on this.
 

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Could Risa wait 5 minutes in front of a food bowl before eating? Probably. Do I make her? Nope. I do make her wait so that I don't need to worry about her grabbing food as I'm setting it down. I also know I can leave the room and she won't touch her food without my say-so.

Personally, I think it's all about teaching your dog self-control. Dogs who have self-control can still function when aroused. Mealtimes are very exciting times yet Ris knows she has to be calm and collected or she doesn't get to eat. This transfers to other behaviors like waiting for permission to exit the car even if we're at a really fun location. I think most dogs out there have no self-control which is why they're always running up to other dogs/people, bolting through doors, etc.

I think if your dog CAN wait that long that you've definately got a dog with a good sense of self-control. But I don't know of anyone that's doing 20 minute waits at doors on a daily basis. JMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That was kind of my thought Jamie - thanks. And I agree about the not bolting out the door - can see that. I just thought the 20 minute wait was a bit much not because of making them wait but the length of time...and I'm not familiar with the Patrica McConnel book but I don't recall the other two discussing that.

edited for computer gremlins!
 

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It all depends on what your goals are for your dog and how reliable you want the dog to be.

I will put my dogs in a platz for several minutes while I am having a conversation with someone and I do expect them to stay. I will also put a couple of my dogs on a platz on the front porch while I water the lawn and flowers and I do expect them to stay and they are good about it. Of course you have to start with little incriments of time and work up to it.

For me, I do find it practical to work on those things. I also put all the dogs in a sit sometimes and then open the door and make them wait a minute or so but not 20 minutes. No practical reason for that nor do I have the patience.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yea it was the 20 minutes that raised my eyebrows. I understand completely there's situations to control them with a stay...it was the length of time. I suppose they have to learn somehow. The readers of these articles mostly have small (read grooming shop) dogs...so am also considering those individuals vs GSD...I think more small dogs need training...just question the *20 minutes* of stays just because. I, too, don't quite have the patience and if I forget and a half hour later they get bored and break then I've undone it as they've learned they *don't* have to stay. Just thought I'd missed something! :-D I think so far we're all pretty much on the same thought train.
 

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Hysterical chimp noises. Yes. Grimm makes them if he has to stay for 20 minutes while waiting to do something REALLY crucial like eating. He does it-- may need a few corrections-- but he carrols out "YOO-WOO-WOO-WOO!!" It sounds like a primate house in here.

On the plus side, he does do an out-of-sight stay, and can down-stay for the duration of DH's and my dinner.

Working up to stays is good, and so is gradually increasing distractions (I need to do better at that). But, some dogs naturally have a tougher time with not getting to do what they reeeeeally want. Grimm turns into a vocal, hysterical chimp as he stays in place.
 

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I haven't been very good about it since moving, but I used to make both dogs wait until I gave the 'ok' to eat. There were a few times I waited as much as 30 minutes just to see if I could. hehe


Within a minute or two of setting the bowls down, this would begin with both dogs:
 

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don't forget to add sit before entering the house from being outside, and you go in first. also practicing patience before entering a vehicle and departing from one.

practicing long downs in different inviroments is another good training for patience.

debbie
 

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Discussion Starter #11
rofl Brenna.

Many years ago I had a border collie - we lived in an apartment (worked on a farm though) so "just in case" he were to ever get loose I not only taught him "down" from anywhere but also when he comes to a crossing/street he was to stop and sit. So I had him pretty well done and was going somewhere with him in somewhat of a hurry...we come to an intersection an he dutifully sits and looks at me like "NO!! We WAIT at intersections." And until I stopped he would not move. lol But I never had to worry about him running out in front of a car.
 

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20 min? Well that is a bit long, but I did forget about Ava in the kitchen the other day for about that long. OOOPS. This is one of the first things I teach fosters that come into my house. Before they leave me they will wait to be released to go outside and wait to be released to eat. I do this because it helps with focus and patience. Also, most of the GSD's I come across can be awesome pets, but no one ever worked with them to learn these basic manners. Their bad manners are probably what helped put them on the street to begin with. My dog will wait to be released to eat, but I will not feed this foster with my girl until he learns to wait nicely and be released to eat, he isnt there yet, but I have a substantial pause so far and he sits nicely so it is progress with this one.
Ceasar has some good ideas and I prefer McConnell over the monks of new skete. I think the biggest thing is to decide what you require of your dog and work with that. If you are working for police or search work, you probably will need a very long wait or platz. I would probably never need this with my girl but there may be an occaision when it is needed.
 

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I teach my dogs a long down, at least 30 minutes with heavy distractions but a sit maybe 5. I feel it just is not natural or comfortable for the dog to sit much longer than that.
There are plenty of practical applications for the long down. The BH routine takes about 15 minutes, and your dog must remain in a down while the other dog does their routine. I use a down stay when people come over to curb the dog's initial excitement. A long down stay is also great when a contractor that the DW is not comfortable with is at the house. There's something about obediant GSD in the room that keep people from acting stupid.
 
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