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Discussion Starter #1
if this is in the wrong place please feel free to move it. :)

Dodger just peed on the stairs in front of me, he's done this twice in the year we've had him and it just started recently. One was last week he just decided to pee in front of my mom (we think he was mad at her for taking a bully stick away that wasn't his, he stole it from our 17 year old). then tonight I took him for a hour to an hour and half walk, did some OB and fed him then he goes upstairs gets his bone chews on it comes down to the landing and just starts peeing. i got really mad at him and rubbing his nose in it then put him outside, He's 2 1/2 and completely potty trained. I don't know why this is suddenly starting. He has no medical issues we took him to the vet and had every thing done on him and it all came back negative. Is he marking his territory? or trying to show who's boss? :help:
 

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Any time there is a sudden change in bathroom habits you need to take in a urine sample and check for a UTI. Be sure to get the sample during the first pee in the morning. If that comes back negative I would keep looking because there must be something medical going on. Dogs do not suddenly start peeing in the house out of spite, dominance or anything else...unless there's been some sort of major change in your household?

The rubbing the nose in it thing went out with the stone ages. Never worked then and doesn't work now.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
When we took him to the vet she said to bring in a sample and it came back negative. :confused: I realize now that I probably shouldn't have rubbed his nose in it, I was really really mad at him, now that I've calmed down that rubbing noses in it doesn't work. My take on it is he's trying to be dominate by claiming things ie my stairs and my ottoman. he has been off his normal exercise routine because of the week straight rain we had, but now that it's not raining we're back on it.
 

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You should definitely correct him when you catch him doing this - minus the nose rubbing - and take him immediately outside where you praise him for peeing. He is starting to mark in the house and you need to catch him in the act in order to stop it. You also have to REALLY clean up the spots in the house so he's not drawn to them again.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
He knew he was busted when I got up to go get him. I grabbed him by the scruff as he was trying to run from me, tail tucked between his legs, head down and crying all the way to the door. I threw him outside and went and cleaned the spot. Luckily we have good spot cleaner. My mom told me to rub his nose in it. I was so mad that I just did what she said usually I dont rub noses in it.
 

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You need a cleaner with enzymes that will get rid of the odor. Most spot cleaners will not work. I've heard vinegar works but there are special cleaners for animal urine.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The spot cleaner that we have is for urine :) we got it because our 17 year old is starting to lose control of his bowels and bladder :(
 

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White vinegar mixed with water works better than anything else.

You had a urine culture done when?

The only males I've ever had do that were fosters and they only did when they first came in the house.

If it really does turn out to be behavioral then I would be sure he's on NILIF and keep him on a leash so that he can't mark.
 

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you rubbed his nose in urine and now you threw him outside.
you didn't throw him outside did you? you dragged him by
the scruff of his neck which isn't a good move either.
vinegar and warm water should help with the clean up.
when my pup went on the carpet i cleaned it up with
the vinegar and water and i also dusted the top and bottom
with baking powder or baking soda.

I threw him outside and went and cleaned the spot.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
you rubbed his nose in urine and now you threw him outside.
you didn't throw him outside did you? you dragged him by
the scruff of his neck which isn't a good move either.
vinegar and warm water should help with the clean up.
when my pup went on the carpet i cleaned it up with
the vinegar and water and i also dusted the top and bottom
with baking powder or baking soda.
The only reason why I scruffed him was because that was the only thing I could grab to get him to come with me. He wouldn't come when I called him because he knew what he did was a bad move and was going to get in trouble. I didn't actually throw him outside I put him outside i can't pick up a 75 pound dog by just his neck first of that's cruel and I would never ever do anything to hurt or mistreat my dogs. I'm going to say this again my mom told me to rub his nose in it and I was so mad that I just did what she told me to after I calmed down I realized I should t have done that as it does nothing. I told her so and all she said what's that how we potty trained our dogs growing up. I'll try the vinegar and warm water to make sure I really got it out.

Bowwowmom we took him in Wednesday and got the results friday. It came back negative.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
White vinegar mixed with water works better than anything else.

You had a urine culture done when?

The only males I've ever had do that were fosters and they only did when they first came in the house.

If it really does turn out to be behavioral then I would be sure he's on NILIF and keep him on a leash so that he can't mark.
I believe he's challenging me and trying to see what he can get away with after last night I doubt he'll try it again. We've been doing NILIF from day one and it's helped a lot he's not as dominate as he was when we first brought him home. I'm going to try the white vinegar and warm water when I get home from work to make sure it's really out. He's only allowed where we can see him which is usually on his bed. He snuck upstais to get his bone and then he came down to the landing and marked. After I let him in the first thing he wanted to do was go upstairs and probably hide I wouldn't let him, so he stayed on his bed until one of us when with him to but him in his crate for the night. He generally not allowed upsatirs without one of us anyways. But if he tries it again he will be permanently leashed to me for a while.
 

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It's very odd that your dog is starting to mark in your house, and I still wonder if there is UTI, even thought the vet did not find anything with the first sample. Was the sample you took from the first pee of the day? What I would do is get the very first vet appt of the day, and take your dog directly from the house to the car without letting him pee. Get your vet to draw the sample. This way they can culture the sample in a sterile manner. If there is any bacteria, it will be concentrated in the pee he has held all night.

One thing about grabbing your dog by the scruff (I understand you were mad and I won't say that I have never done it either) doing that can make your dog hand-shy and the next time you need to grab his collar quickly, he may dodge you which could be a safety issue.

Was this peeing precipitated by your older dog becoming incontinent? I suppose if the urine test is still clean, that's possibly what started it all. I've had very good luck with the products from Nature's Miracle for cleaning up urine.
 

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I believe he's challenging me and trying to see what he can get away with
Stop with this! I believe you are challenging us by continuing to say this! :rofl: Seriously - not sure where you are thinking this but this thought is the reason you are reacting to him (poorly) the way you are. If you were like oh, pee, you would have a reaction that is more fair and be able to figure things out better. You've muddled the behavior with your reaction. Just something to think about.

I missed it - you have an older incontinent dog in the house?

Is this guy neutered?

I had a neutered male dog who went to visit friends with me. They had two little dogs. The first thing he did was start to pee in their house. He certainly wasn't challenging them (if he wanted to do that he would have just bitten them :wild:), he was just covering the little dogs' pee.

They had NO idea the little dogs were peeing - because it was such a tiny amount. But he found it.

They went back through the house with a black light (I love engineers - the husband was all sorts of into this project) and found multiple areas that needed the enzymatic treatment. They also started to watch their little ones more carefully and gated them during the day. My dog was invited back over to do a check and this time had no reason to pee inside anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It's very odd that your dog is starting to mark in your house, and I still wonder if there is UTI, even thought the vet did not find anything with the first sample. Was the sample you took from the first pee of the day? What I would do is get the very first vet appt of the day, and take your dog directly from the house to the car without letting him pee. Get your vet to draw the sample. This way they can culture the sample in a sterile manner. If there is any bacteria, it will be concentrated in the pee he has held all night.

One thing about grabbing your dog by the scruff (I understand you were mad and I won't say that I have never done it either) doing that can make your dog hand-shy and the next time you need to grab his collar quickly, he may dodge you which could be a safety issue.

Was this peeing precipitated by your older dog becoming incontinent? I suppose if the urine test is still clean, that's possibly what started it all. I've had very good luck with the products from Nature's Miracle for cleaning up urine.
when we called the vet to make an appt she made one first thing in the morning. She took a sample from him we didn't let him pee yet although he really wanted too lol.

he wasn't wearing a collar at the time since we don't keep collars on in the house anymore so it was the only thing i had to grab on too. I don't grab them by the scruffs they just don't have collars on otherwise i would have grabbed that.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Stop with this! I believe you are challenging us by continuing to say this! :rofl: Seriously - not sure where you are thinking this but this thought is the reason you are reacting to him (poorly) the way you are. If you were like oh, pee, you would have a reaction that is more fair and be able to figure things out better. You've muddled the behavior with your reaction. Just something to think about.

I missed it - you have an older incontinent dog in the house?

Is this guy neutered?

I had a neutered male dog who went to visit friends with me. They had two little dogs. The first thing he did was start to pee in their house. He certainly wasn't challenging them (if he wanted to do that he would have just bitten them :wild:), he was just covering the little dogs' pee.

They had NO idea the little dogs were peeing - because it was such a tiny amount. But he found it.

They went back through the house with a black light (I love engineers - the husband was all sorts of into this project) and found multiple areas that needed the enzymatic treatment. They also started to watch their little ones more carefully and gated them during the day. My dog was invited back over to do a check and this time had no reason to pee inside anymore.
they are both neutered. where Dodger peed is not where my older one peed. My older one can't get up the stairs anymore. My older one has been doing this for a while and just recently gotten worse. If he were covering my older dogs pee he would have done it sooner not suddenly a year later right?
 

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I honestly don't know. It is possible that he wouldn't want to do that if the older dog was more in charge, as he becomes more feeble, it becomes okay for him to do it. My dogs definitely have a pecking order as to who can cover pee outside, so I am guessing it would apply inside too?

There is also excitement and submissive/fear urination - have those been ruled out?
 

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Aha, good observation about the other dog peeing in the house. My dog Basu peed inside twice: once was at Petsmart where apparently many dogs pee on thing and the other time was at friend's house whose little dog peed in the house all of the time. He didn't pee directly on top of the little dog's pee but he definitely smelled the pee smell and thought it was a-ok to pee in their house.

I would bet that is a part of what you're dealing with. Many of my markers have marked in the area of another dog's pee and not on top of it at all. So he may be marking in the house because the other dog is peeing in the house.

Why do you keep saying your dog is dominant?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I honestly don't know. It is possible that he wouldn't want to do that if the older dog was more in charge, as he becomes more feeble, it becomes okay for him to do it. My dogs definitely have a pecking order as to who can cover pee outside, so I am guessing it would apply inside too?

There is also excitement and submissive/fear urination - have those been ruled out?
my older dog is extremely submissive and can't lift his leg anymore and can't climb stairs anymore. Dodger on the other hand is the dominate one out of the two males. Dodger covers everybody's pee outside. he wasn't being submissive until i stood up to go get him at that point in time when he was peeing he was clearly dominate. He wasn't afraid of anything either he was calmly chewing on his bone walked down to the landing and peed.
 

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Canine pack hierarchies and human/dog hierarchies are very different. My first dog, Massie, was very dominant with other dogs but never with me. Two of my males have been somewhat dominant with other dogs (taking toys, showing mounting behaviors, etc.) but totally deferential to me. I would recommend reading some good books about canine behaviors. Patricia McConnell is a great place to start and a fun and interesting read too.

This could definitely be submissive urination. In both instances your dog was in trouble for doing something. For example, in the most recent situation you stated that he was upstairs where he is not allowed and ran downstairs. You ran after him. He knew he was in trouble so he stopped on the landing and peed. You then dragged him outside screaming, reinforcing his fear. What exactly happened after he took the bone from your other dog and before he peed?

If you catch him urinating in the house again, notice the situation. Are you angry at him for something? If so, I'd say you have your answer.

Just an observation from 23 of observing dog behavior: I haven't found going nuts on my dog to be particularly effective except in making her/him afraid of me. They may not repeat a behavior because they are afraid of me going crazy, not because they truly understand there was a problem with the behavior. I speak from experience because I can have a very short and quick temper and have had a steep learning curve over the years in terms of training methods. My current dog, Rafi, has been trained primarily with positive reinforcement, counter conditioning and negative voice markers. He is, by far, the most consistently well behaved dog I've ever had.
 
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