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Discussion Starter #1
Good morning. Current issue and any suggestions will be appreciated.
I recently took back a former foster baby. She is now 14-months old.
She originally came to me as a very sick four-month old baby with a severe respiratory infection. It actually took four-months to get her healthy, happy, UTD on all vaccines and spayed. She was then adopted by previous rescue adopters to join their family and be a companion to their male GSD.
When she first came to me she did have a bit of a submissive urination issue, however we were able to boost her confidence enough to overcome the issue.
The family's other GSD now has liver disease and has become very aggressive to Luna. For that reason and some other major stress in the family's life, she has come back to spend a couple months w/ me.
Her submissive urination is now quite pronounced. In the few days she has been back, I have noticed some points where she urinates and have explained them to my family so that everyone ensures, for the time being, that they follow my directions.
1. I noticed she would be fine in the crate through the night. She would whine quite a bit when the house went to sleep, and would piddle in her crate as soon as she saw a human in the a.m.
Remedy: I now cover her crate and ensure that it faces the front door. When I get up, I immediately let her out when I uncover the crate door.
2. If you touch her collar, she piddles.
Remedy: I use my words, and avoid touching the collar until we are outside.
3. And now, last but not least; Even when she comes back in the house after we have been out in the yard together ... and she has piddled several times ... as soon as she comes back in and is greeted and is greeting back several happy dogs, she piddles. It is pretty much impossible to not have a dog or two greet her. Any thoughts?
I am planning to take a urine sample in and am also tossing around the idea of checking the size of her bladder. She is on Natural Balance right now and I have been thinking about changing that also.
K, all you great minds, send some good ideas my way.
 

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Re: Submissive urination in 14-month old female GS

I am guessing this is not a health issue or bladder size issue but is related to the stress in the previous household and the behavior of their dog towards her--she expects something bad to happen now when she sees other dogs.

It sounds like you are on the right track with everything you are doing. I would ignore the peeing and go back to building her confidence. Clicker training using shaping exercises might be a really good exercise for her.
 

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If there isn't a UTI, it could just be a confidence issue. I agree with the way you are dealing with the first two instances - we have dealt similarly with our piddler. In his case, it has diminished over time without any extraordinary measures being taken - just an established routine and regular confidence building through training and socialisation. Along with no touching prior to gonig out, we also needed to avoid eye contact.

I think this will likely resolve itself as she adjusts to your home.
 

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Originally Posted By: ddIf there isn't a UTI, it could just be a confidence issue. I agree with the way you are dealing with the first two instances - we have dealt similarly with our piddler. In his case, it has diminished over time without any extraordinary measures being taken - just an established routine and regular confidence building through training and socialisation. Along with no touching prior to gonig out, we also needed to avoid eye contact.

I think this will likely resolve itself as she adjusts to your home.
I SO agree!!!!!!
I think that you are being as correct as possible in your treatment methods and that in time, with her built confidence she will show results...she's probable effected by the uprooting as well and needs time to know that this is home again.
It's not easy , I know -
My BIL had a Boxer-piddler. She took quite some time to get up her confidence levels.
(keep her on washable surfaces) sorry - other than what you've already stated - that's the only other bit of advice I can offer--

Good luck!
 

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When i first got Ary she was really submissive ( still is but hasnt gotten tons better ) and when i would touch her collar or just bend over her she would lay down whine and pee a little. To break her of this i started taking her collar off when i was at home or work ( i worked at a kennel ). When it was time to go home or to leave home i would get some yummy treats put her in a sit make sure to not really look at her face and would attempt to put the collar on over and over and everytime she would lay down or pee or whine i would stop. As soon as she sat and let me put it on ( at first it really took a long time ) i would give her the treat and praise her quietly. Now she only acts submissive with her collar if someone other than me tries to touch it or put a leash on!
Sorry this is so long.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Submissive urination in 14-month old female GS

I'm glad you guys think I'm on the right track.
They had the submissive urination from the get-go. I worked with them by phone a lot and we felt it was because they leashed walked her on their three acres because nothing was fenced in. She was used to a fenced yard with me. It seemed to get better, but then when Jack, their male, got sick and aggressive (maybe because of the meds? Maybe because he felt like poop?), everything started back up two-fold.
So Jack, some personal issues, and Luna piddle were just too much for them to deal with at the moment. I offered to keep her for a month, work on the piddle and see if some of their stress goes away before they sign her back over to the rescue.
A friend of mine said I jinxed the adoption because out of all my fosters, I took the picture of her and my LH black, Jetta, created an avatar with it, and never changed it.

Anyway, yes, my whole house is almost all hard surface now, so my Swiffer Wet Jet and I are staying really busy.

Anyway, here is our Luna girl now. Still growing at 80+ pounds!

 

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Re: Submissive urination in 14-month old female GS

Very pretty girl! Does she have any fear issues along with the submission?

Some of the T-Touch techniques have worked well for us for confidence building. I think if she has other fear issues - shy of people or loud noises, frinstance - desensitisation will likely also help with the piddling.
 

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Re: Submissive urination in 14-month old female GS

Other than the piddle, this girl isn't sensitive about anything. She's a big lug that just lumbers through the house, wanting to play with anyone or anything.
She absolutely loves people, places, the car, dogs, cats, you name it.
In fact, it is kind of funny. During the four months she was here, my crabby 10-year old border collie, affectionately known as Bella Kruella, never once crabbed her out when she would literally walk ON Bella when Bella was sleeping. Man, let any other dog do that and she would be yelling at them all the way down the hallway. And, it still holds true. Luna literally runs right into her when she wants her to play ball and Bella just wags her tail.
Luna was only gone six months and it seems like everyone remembers her. Who knows ...
 

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Re: Submissive urination in 14-month old female GS

She sounds great. I think this will rectify with time - but will likely come back should you rehome her...
 

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Re: Submissive urination in 14-month old female GS

Poor girl, she is just trying really hard to fit in and not rock the boat.

I had some luck with Raya in getting her to look up at my face or eyes instead of the head ducked submissive peeing stance. Pretty much used treats and the watch me stuff. If I get her body out of the submissive posture the brain seems to follow.

With the coming in the house and greeting dogs, is there a way that you could limit it to one dog at at time or after she is pottied bring a dog out with her and have them come in the house together. Basically breaking down the getting to know each dog.

The collar thing, I would try a tab on the collar and see how she responds. I would also make me grabbing the collar a really good thing, the best treat in the whole world.

Just some thoughts.

Val
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: Submissive urination in 14-month old female GS

I like the other dog idea. Gosh knows, there are several to choose from! Yes, tab on the collar is very cool too, along with a pocket full of the good stuff!
You guys rock, this is just what I'm looking for!!!!
 

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Re: Submissive urination in 14-month old female GS

Keep us updated... This is why I like this board, we get ideas different from our own.
 

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Re: Submissive urination in 14-month old female GS

WiscTiger - can you please explain what you mean about putting a tab on the collar?

Thanks
 
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