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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone. A friend of mine was living in germany brought with him a gsd female who got pregnant from a local gsd male. 4 days ago she died reasons are unknown or at least thats what my friend told me. So I adopted one of them a 5 weeks old puppy called her Stellar. Now am strugling to keep her clean and healthy. Cleaning is the easy part but feeding her is so hard and she is so moody. She is too young she should be drinking her mothers milk so am trying my best. Today she ate a cooked egg not fried with oil she even ate the egg shell she refuse cow milk barely drink it. Oh i wrote a lot sorry. Maybe wrong section too ? Any advice plz thnx :)
 

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First the puppies should not have been removed from each other at this age.. Even without mom to help guide them, social development among littermates is a huge part of learning social etiquette.. She is also old enough to be eating solids, although each bitch determines how quickly she wears the pups.. I would get the pup checked out by vet and make sure no other health issues are present besides being abandoned...
 

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Cows milk is not good for puppies, and she can be totally weaned at this point. If you must give milk, give goats milk, and you should get it from a farmer, rather than in the store.

Eggs are good You can put a little salt in them and nuke them in a a little bowl if you do not want to feed them raw (messy). Then you aren't adding any oil. You can also hard-boil them, and give her one twice a day, broken up over her kibble.

She is not moody. She is a baby who is not ready to be on her own. Lots of pups have trouble eating without the competition of the litter. Some get depressed on their own. If you have another dog, it does make it easier, but don't get a dog for your pup. You have to be mom and littermates for her. This means, playing with her, keeping her safe, providing safe things to chew on, keeping her clean, and giving her lots of company. You might want sleep in the same room with her, have little x-pens in rooms where you spend the majority of your time and have toys in there for her. This way you can be with her, without being 100 percent attention all the time.

She should be sleeping a lot. No walks -- she is just not protected by vaccines or anything, and she is too small to do forced marches. Just keep her in your home, and work on potty training in the back yard. Let her determine exercise. Be very easy on steps at this point.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks all, am soooo tired ,totally exausted ! she always cry and want to get out to the backyard but seeing her running to me waving her little tail and sometimes climbing and biting me a little bit bring me joy, it makes my day .. I think ill give my friend a call and get her back to the littermates i saw her playing with them last time , i feel so bad for her as her mom died and i thought i could help, than at least she will have some friends to play with all day long.
For the vaccines i took her yesterday to a vet he told me to start vaccines at 8 weeks is better and she is in a good health.
so when i can get her back? at 8 weeks?
 

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Yes, most breeders consider 8 weeks the ideal age for puppies to go to their new homes.

I agree that she really needs her littermates right now to ensure proper development.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
hello again.

sadly my friend gaved all the puppies to different people most of them have other dogs as he told me and they are used to have a dog not like me as this is my first time :(

goats milk is like magic she left her bowl empty even i added some more she drinks it to the last drop, but how much to feed? amount of milk.

kibble is still hard for her as i think just bought an italian brand called maxime , she likes it and keep trying to eat keeps chewing sometimes she eat it sometimes it drops from her mouth.

the vet told me to bring her next week to start vaccination he names some but all i remember is parvo vaccine and other i cant remember.

I am on my own now and feeling terrified for the responsability.
 

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Parvo only right now if the vet insists (due to outbreaks in your area or high probability) 5wks is too young to be getting broad spectrum vaccines ... Soak the kibble in the goats milk to soften it.. Hang in there, it will be difficult for awhile and socialization to other dogs a the appropriate time and way will be essential, as well as exposure elsewhere in time.. But pups have been raised from birth and turned out well so hang in there and start reading everything you can..
 

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So glad she likes the Goat's Milk! Here is information about it:
Answers Raw Pet Food Company: ADDITIONAL - Raw Goat's Milk

Can you list the site of the dog food you are using so that we can see the ingredients?

You can add purified water and/or the goats milk to the food and let it set to soften. If any remains place in refrigerator until next meal.

Are you in the U.S.? If not where are you located?

Pups should not be given a "vaccination cocktail" that contain multiples.
Here is the vaccination schedule by vaccination researcher Dr. Jean Dodds

[FONT=&quot]
2016 Vaccination Protocol:
9 - 10 weeks of age

Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV
e.g. Merck Nobivac (Intervet Progard) Puppy DPV


14 – 15 weeks of age
Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV


18 weeks of age
Parvovirus only, MLV

Note: New research states that last puppy parvovirus vaccine should be at 18 weeks old.


20 weeks or older, if allowable by law
Rabies – give 3-4 weeks apart from other vaccines


1 year old
Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV
This is an optional booster or titer. If the client intends not to booster after this optional booster or intends to retest titers in another three years, this optional booster at puberty is wise.



1 year old
Rabies – give 3-4 weeks apart from other vaccines


Dogs should be tittered each year BEFORE a vaccination is given. If titer is sufficient for such as Parvo or Distemper, a vaccination should not be given.

Moms :)
[/FONT]
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Parvo only right now if the vet insists (due to outbreaks in your area or high probability) 5wks is too young to be getting broad spectrum vaccines ... Soak the kibble in the goats milk to soften it.. Hang in there, it will be difficult for awhile and socialization to other dogs a the appropriate time and way will be essential, as well as exposure elsewhere in time.. But pups have been raised from birth and turned out well so hang in there and start reading everything you can..

about vaccination he gaved the schedule orally and asked me to go back when she is 8 weeks old for parvo than other dates and vaccinations.
about socialization is it necessairy that she have to meet other dogs?
am reading everything about gsd.
thnx for giving me advice i appreciate this a lot :)
happy to be here
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So glad she likes the Goat's Milk! Here is information about it:
Answers Raw Pet Food Company: ADDITIONAL - Raw Goat's Milk

Can you list the site of the dog food you are using so that we can see the ingredients?

You can add purified water and/or the goats milk to the food and let it set to soften. If any remains place in refrigerator until next meal.

Are you in the U.S.? If not where are you located?

Pups should not be given a "vaccination cocktail" that contain multiples.
Here is the vaccination schedule by vaccination researcher Dr. Jean Dodds

[FONT=&quot]
2016 Vaccination Protocol:
9 - 10 weeks of age

Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV
e.g. Merck Nobivac (Intervet Progard) Puppy DPV


14 – 15 weeks of age
Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV


18 weeks of age
Parvovirus only, MLV

Note: New research states that last puppy parvovirus vaccine should be at 18 weeks old.


20 weeks or older, if allowable by law
Rabies – give 3-4 weeks apart from other vaccines


1 year old
Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV
This is an optional booster or titer. If the client intends not to booster after this optional booster or intends to retest titers in another three years, this optional booster at puberty is wise.



1 year old
Rabies – give 3-4 weeks apart from other vaccines


Dogs should be tittered each year BEFORE a vaccination is given. If titer is sufficient for such as Parvo or Distemper, a vaccination should not be given.

Moms :)
[/FONT]
thank you very much for all these informations.
this is the dog food company HOMEPAGE - R.S. COMPANY Dog & Cat Food

since italy is near my country Tunisia all products comes from it.
there is also royal canine the shop owner told me to buy a test bag before buying a big bag of 4 kg.
also i bought canned food wich is sauce doesnt have meat balls .
i wish am doing my best for her and wish she loves me as i do :)


her name is stellar because she is more than a star
 

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The site you posted is in Italian! LOL :grin2:
Can you list the ingredients in the food?
Does the ingredient list say what % of each ingredient?
Does the bag say where the meat and vegetables are sourced from?


Definitely ask vet if he/she can give a single vaccination at a time (or at least....just the Parvo & Distemper together as Dr. Dodds recommends), 3 to 4 weeks apart.


More on vaccinations for your reading pleasure!
;)


Articles

The Purdue Vaccination Studies and Auto-antibodies by Catherine O’Driscoll on April 26, 2011 The Purdue Vaccination Studies and Auto-antibodies - Dogs Naturally Magazine
Taking The Risk Out Of Puppy Shots by Dogs Naturally on July 12, 2011 Taking The Risk Out Of Puppy Shots - Dogs Naturally Magazine
Protecting Your Puppy From Disease: Protecting Your Puppy From Disease - Dogs Naturally Magazine

There is also a 4 part video series on vaccinations by Dr. Ron Schultz and Dr. Karen Becker at www.mercolahealtypets.com


Vets On Vaccines: Vets On Vaccines - Dogs Naturally Magazine


Leptospirosis Vaccines adverse reaction, Dr. Jordan DVM
Food Allergies In Dogs ? A Man-Made Problem - Dogs Naturally Magazine
Frequently Asked Questions about Titers and Vaccination Protocol by Dr. Dodds
Puppy and Kitten Vaccinations: Timing is critical
Rabies: The Science & the Current Law
Vaccines: When too much of a good thing turns bad
Vaccines: When too much of a good thing turns bad (Part 2)
Avoid Unnecessary Vaccines with Titer Tests (Part 3)

Response: Immune-Mediated Thrombocytopenia Report and Article
Q&A with Dr. Dodds: Is the puppy’s severe physical reaction due to a routine vaccine?
Q&A with Dr. Dodds: What should I do to protect my adult dogs during a parvovirus outbreak?
To Vaccinate or Not to Vaccinate for Infectious Canine Hepatitis?
Q&A with Dr. Dodds: I had a dog who had a bad reaction to the rabies vaccine and now I am concerned about giving it to my other dogs. What should I do?
Q&A with Dr. Dodds: Kennel Cough Complex Vaccines
Yes or No to Snake Vaccines?
Canine Influenza H3N8 Article - Dr. Dodds’ Additions
Clinical Approaches to Managing and Treating Adverse Vaccine Reactions
Dr. Schultz on Lyme Vaccine
Dr. Schultz Update on Leptospirosis Vaccines (2012)
More on Vaccine Titer Testing
Q&A with Dr. Dodds: Newborns and immunity from mothers
Mercury-Induced Inflammation: Yet Another Example of ASIA Syndrome
Canine Non-Core Vaccines
Snapshot of Leptospirosis Strains and Vaccines
Puppy Vaccination Schedule and Socialization: Can they go together?
Kennel Cough Complex: A complicated phrase for the canine common cold
A Pilot Study: Dose Vaccines for Small Dogs
More on Vaccinations & Small Dog Vaccine Study
Canine Influenza H3N2 Outbreak
Immune Disorders and Vaccines
Know Your Bordetella Vaccine

[FONT=&quot]Dr. Patricia Jordan’s book:
http://drjeandoddspethealthresource.tumblr.com/post/148259661186/know-your-bordetella-vaccine#.V55XTLgrLIUMark of the Beast: Hidden in Plain Sight - This book is essential reading for pet owners, animal lovers and everyone seeking to know the truth about vaccine issues. The book title, Mark of the Beast, sums up the author's views on the medical practice of vaccination. Dr Patricia Jordan is a highly qualified veterinary surgeon with more than 24 years experience. Her observations and conclusions are based upon scientific evidence as opposed to the propaganda and junk science disseminated by pharmaceutical companies in their ever increasing need to maximize profits. Dr Jordan cites research studies showing that annual vaccinations are totally unnecessary and especially in respect of rabies where over vaccination is causing genetic changes and violent behavior in animals including horses. Dr. Patricia Jordan says: vaccination is the induction into a cycle of disease and disease management that is in every way a violation of the AVMA 1969 Veterinary Oath, in every way including public health and animal welfare

Other articles by Dr. Jordan
Cancer in our pet population, why is it on the rise?
Vaccinations and How They Disrupt the Immune System
5th Annual Joint American Homeopathic Conference - Poster Session 2010
Leptospirosis Vaccines Adverse Reaction
How vaccines dysregulate the immune system and impact genetic control over disease expression

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For Dr. Dodds’ & Dr. Schultz position on various canine vaccines:
Frequently Asked Questions about Titers and Vaccination Protocol
Dr. Ron Schultz on Lyme Vaccine
Dr. Ron Schultz on Leptospirosis Vaccines
Kennel Cough Complex Vaccines
Infectious Canine Hepatitis
Canine Influenza (H3N8)
Vaccinations: A Global Perspective

http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2011/12/17/why-vets-dont-recognize-vaccine-reactions/#more-1346

Moms :)
[/FONT]
 

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I managed to find the ingredient list for Maxime Puppy, and it is NOT a good quality food.

The first ingredient is corn meal, followed by meat (doesn't say what kind!) lard, rice, corn gluten, dehydrated whole eggs, fructo-oligosaccharides.

There is very little meat in this food. I would switch to Royal Canin puppy food instead.
From what I can see on the label of the canned food, it doesn't look too bad. It definitely has more meat in it than the kibble, and is much easier for her to eat, since she doesn't have her adult teeth in yet!
 

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She sounds hungry. That canned food looks very good. If she is still hungry after one can, wait two hours, and then give her another half a can. If she is still hungry and looking for more, give her the rest of it.

How many times a day are you feeding her? She should be eating 4 times a day.

For vaccines, what I do is I take them to the vet at 7 weeks old and they give a five way that includes parvo and distemper. They also worm at this time, usually with Strongid. (I worm at 3-4 weeks, and 5-6 weeks).

At 11 weeks we repeat, and then at 16 weeks they get this and rabies.

I wouldn't give vaccines to a 5 week old puppy, unless you have found that the other pups are sick. Then I would explain everything to my vet and put it in their hands. It is sad that the dam is dead, and I wonder how she died. At this point the puppy is yours, and you can raise a pup of this age. It just may have some special challenges. Don't worry too much. Listen to your vet. Play with your puppy. Feed her. Is there any other dry foods in your area, it sounds like the kibble you are using isn't giving her what she needs.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
She sounds hungry. That canned food looks very good. If she is still hungry after one can, wait two hours, and then give her another half a can. If she is still hungry and looking for more, give her the rest of it.

How many times a day are you feeding her? She should be eating 4 times a day.

For vaccines, what I do is I take them to the vet at 7 weeks old and they give a five way that includes parvo and distemper. They also worm at this time, usually with Strongid. (I worm at 3-4 weeks, and 5-6 weeks).

At 11 weeks we repeat, and then at 16 weeks they get this and rabies.

I wouldn't give vaccines to a 5 week old puppy, unless you have found that the other pups are sick. Then I would explain everything to my vet and put it in their hands. It is sad that the dam is dead, and I wonder how she died. At this point the puppy is yours, and you can raise a pup of this age. It just may have some special challenges. Don't worry too much. Listen to your vet. Play with your puppy. Feed her. Is there any other dry foods in your area, it sounds like the kibble you are using isn't giving her what she needs.
update, this morning i served her the canned food and she didnt even eat a bit and she went to the milk bowl! am so confused. besides her poop is watery :(
 

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don't be concerned - feeding a dog too much can cause diarrhea. I think that may be what happened yesterday when she went nuts over the canned food.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
don't be concerned - feeding a dog too much can cause diarrhea. I think that may be what happened yesterday when she went nuts over the canned food.
Thank you very much for all the informations i was really worried but she is so active today her tail is waving and jumping trying to catch a butterfly. Is it ok if she is not interested on me ? Because i call her but she goes away and play other place.
 

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I am worried about your puppy's nutrition. You've taken her to the vet? Did he worm her? Did he weigh her. Can you feel her ribs? Goats milk alone is better than nothing, but she needs meat at this time. She needs to eat 4 times a day, and she needs to have a balanced diet for a puppy.

Yes, if you have diarrhea, you can shave back what you are giving her and if it clears up then you know she over ate. Avoid over-feeding. If she is feeling queezy then she will probably not eat. So the goat's milk is probably good for her to keep up nutrients. But really, she shouldn't need milk at this point. My bitches would be allowing some nursing at this age, but most of their intake would be soaked quality kibble.

Since I am generally working full-time, the bitch takes care of feeding while I am at work. They get drinks from her, and food from me three times a day. Since yours is not getting drinks from her dam, it should be eating 4 times a day.

I use a mid-quality kibble, Diamond Naturals Adult chicken and Rice. Which has chicken and chicken meal first and then rice and chicken fat. You have to know how to read labels. The ingredient list is in weighted order. So having meat first and second and then rice (digestible) and focus on the foods before the chicken fat. That is the bulk. If you are anal like me, watch until salt. Avoid foods that have molasses in it -- that is a filler that is sweet, and they are trying to get the dog to eat a food that is either not meat-based, or has rancid fat. And lastly, Chicken up front is great, but only if followed by a chicken meal. Chicken is 70% water. So when that is extruded in the process, that ingredient lands much further down on the list of what is actually in there. Another thing is when they cut up your rice into brown rice, white rice, rice flour, rice gluten and etc. When you add up the particles of rice, you can have a lot more rice than your earlier ingredients.

Remember that dog food is a racket.

Also, processing removes nutrients. A lot of people go raw because there is less processing and the raw meat gets into the dog. A baby puppy that is already compromised though should not be given raw food. Sorry raw food feeders. Babies this young without a strong mother can be very susceptible to salmonella or e-coli.

What I would do is give a good kibble, soaked in warm goats milk or water, and then add some hard-boiled or microwaved egg, a tablespoon of dannon's regular-fat plain yogurt with live cultures in it, and maybe a spoonful of solid pack pumpkin. After a couple of weeks of good eating you can just put a spoon of cottage cheese or yogurt on top. Eggs are great all the time, they are like a perfect food for dogs. Pumpkin helps keep the dog regular, it can be given if the dog has diarrhea or if the dog is constipated, and it should help.

Now this diarrhea. We don't know why the dam died. But there are a number of reasons puppies get runny poop, and over-feeding is only one of them. There is coccidia, and worms -- common for puppies, but you need to deal with them. There is giardia. There is parvo and other diseases. If there is blood or mucus in the poop, then you need to get the puppy to the vet. Diarrhea is dangerous because a youngster like this one can become dehydrated very fast. Check to see if your puppy is dehydrated and anemic. You can do this by pulling on the skin on the top of the neck, it should spring back into place. Also check the gums and lips, it should be pink, not too light and not sticky. The nose should be wet. You should be able to push on the gum and make it white, and then it should come right back to a pink color -- this means the refil is good and the puppy is not anemic. If the nose is dry, take the pup's temperature, with a cheap dimestore/drugstore digital thermometer, that will beep when the reading is steady. This will be anal, just push it in about an inch, inch and a half, press the button and wait for it to beep. Your puppy should be between 101 and 102 degrees. At 103 degrees call your vet and explain the symptoms, make an appointment. Above 103 degrees, put your dog in the the car and call the vet on route and explain that you are bringing the baby puppy in, and what you have going on.

With worms or cocci, your puppy will still be running around and happy, probably, with parvo or distemper, your puppy will get very lethargic, and uninterested in anything -- these are killers. Lethargy in a puppy is a major symptom, so be sure to tell your vet if you think she is off, or if you think she is depressed or lethargic.
 

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Royal Canin is a good quality, reputable food. I know 2 German shepherd breeders who feed only this brand to their dogs, and the dogs are doing great. It is definitely much, much superior to the kibble you are currently feeding.
 

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I see Royal Canin as over-priced and gimmicky food. Using GSD 24 or whatever to suck people in to buying their food. Like when a food is "grain free" but loaded with potato and peas. Yep, your dog isn't going to eat rice in the wild, but he isn't going to eat potatoes or peas in the wild either.

Dog food is a racket.

Lets compare Royal Canin German Shepherd to Diamond Naturals Adult Chicken and Rice:

Ingredients


  1. Brewers Rice, Chicken By-Product Meal, Brown Rice, Oat Groats, Chicken Fat, Pork Meal, Natural Flavors, Powdered Cellulose, Wheat Gluten, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Fish Oil, Vegetable Oil, Sodium Silico Aluminate, Coconut Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, L-Tyrosine, Salt, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Taurine, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Vitamins [Dl-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), Inositol, Niacin Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement], Choline Chloride, Dl-Methionine, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Marigold Extract (Tagetes Erecta L.), Monocalcium Phosphate, Trace Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Copper Proteinate], Tea, Chondroitin Sulfate, Rosemary Extract, Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid.
Caloric Content


  1. 3,785 kcal/kg, 322 kcal/cup
  2. Crude Protein 22.0% min Crude Fat 17.0% min Crude Fiber 5.0% max Moisture 10.0% max Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) 0.24% min Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) 0.1% min Glucosamine 750 mg/kg min Chondroitin Sulfate 25 mg/kg min
Price $56.99 for 30 pounds.

https://www.chewy.com/royal-canin-german-shepherd-adult/dp/103057

Nutritional Info

Ingredients


  1. Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whole Grain Brown Rice, White Rice, Cracked Pearled Barley, Peas, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Dried Beet Pulp, Egg Product, Natural Flavor, Fish Meal, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Choline Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, Kale, Chia Seed, Pumpkin, Blueberries, Oranges, Quinoa, Dried Kelp, Coconut, Spinach, Carrots, Papaya, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bifidobacterium Lactis, Lactobacillus Reuteri, Vitamin E Supplement, Beta Carotene, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D Supplement, Folic Acid.
Caloric Content


  1. 3,708 kcal/kg, 368 kcal/cup
  2. Crude Protein 26.0% min Crude Fat 16.0% min Crude Fiber 3.0% max Moisture 10.0% max DHA (Docosahexaenoic Acid) 0.05% min Zinc 150 mg/kg min Selenium 0.35 mg/kg min Vitamin E 150 IU/kg min Omega 6 Fatty Acids 2.5% min Omega 3 Fatty Acids 0.4% min Total Microorganisms 1,000,000 CFU/lb min
Cost $36.99 for 40 pounds
www.chewy.com/diamond-naturals-chicken-rice/dp/34919

I used Chewy for both just because I could get all the information. At TSC you can get Diamond Naturals for 31.99, clearly half of what you pay for Royal Canin. At pet co, RC was 52.99, but you have to factor in that is for only 3/4 of the food. So the RC actually costs about 18$ for 10 pounds where DN costs $8 for 10 pounds.

Now let's compare the product, ingredients up to the fat.

RC -- Brewers Rice, Chicken By-Product Meal, Brown Rice, Oat Groats, Chicken Fat, -- the ONLY positive things here is they are using Brown Rice and Chicken fat. Brewers Rice is the main ingredient -- that is horrible. Chicken by-product meal -- what beaks, feet, feathers, bones, entrails, not otherwise rendered for ANYTHING else.

DN -- Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whole Grain Brown Rice, White Rice, Cracked Pearled Barley, Peas, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols) -- Chicken is the first ingredient, 70% water, but it is chicken and backed up by Chicken meals. Then you have Brown rice, white rice -- not much value, barley and peas. But this isn't top of the line food, it is a mid range food that costs less than half what that over-priced slop costs.

Lets look at calorie content.

RC -- 322 kcal/cup
DN -- 368 kcal/cup

Guess what, you will have to feed more of it than the other stuff. Not much, but if you are feeding 15 GSDs that 46kcal in every cup will make a difference.

protein to fat ratio:
RC 22/17 DN 26/16 -- I think Diamond Naturals has the edge here too.

I can go on and on here, because Dog Food burns me up. I am feeding 15 GSDs the Diamond food and we are actually doing good on it. My dogs wouldn't eat Royal Canin -- that was years ago, and yes, I got sucked in and bought a bag. How they can charge over 50$ for 30 pounds of Brewer's Rice is beyond comprehensible.

Edited to add, it seems the kcal/kg is closer to equal. So you may not have to feed more of it. The kg measurement is a weight and the cup measurement more a volume I am guessing. Evenso. 80 calories difference in 2.2 pounds is not as much of a difference as the 40 calories per cup. So you get more cups per bag of Royal Canin because the kibble is large and airy. Fluff. Must be all those chicken feathers.
 
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