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Discussion Starter #1
Lets see if I can make this streamlined:)

Important facts through all this: Attitude: Perfect. Appetite: great. Activity: Great Weight gain: Fine. Pooing schedule: Twice a day. Coat: Shiny. Eyes: Shiny. Previous food: Natures Variety Chicken and Rice.
Weight 42 pounds. Temperature: Normal. Age: almost 5 months. Drinks: fine.

Fecal tests: All negative

Current poo state after two weeks: a couple semi firm logs topped with some loose. (see icky picture at bottom ). You can see the firmer darker logs near the bottom topped off with the soft or loose

Poo problem time line

1. Start date: Sunday October 24th. 44.5 month old goes totally loose...pudding poo (not watery shooting, but no shape at all)

2. October 25: Move to chicken rice diet with a little pumpkin (remove all dog food)

3. Goes between soft and pudding all week. Never back to firm. Visit vet. Vet tries Amforal. After a couple days slightl decent poo...not perfect. Tried adding back in a dog food (Wellness LBP) REAL SLOW. No go...pudding. Back to chicken and rice.

4. November 3 (10 days in): Back to vet. Vet gives Flagyl (500 mg. twice day and a bismuth to pup and also Florafil for probiotic in meal once a day.

5. Started Flagyl/bismuth, probiotic. Pup still soft to pudding.

6. Moved chicken out of mix about two days ago and moved to hamburger rice.

Below is the poo we have now (this morning), which I think is an improvement from pudding, but still extremely soft, not the real solid logs we had the day before this all started.

Is it possibly an intolerance to chicken (which was in the Natures Variety and the Wellness and also initially in the bland diet for a week) since he has improved somewhat (not totally) in the last three days since moving to rice/hamburger?

Do we need to move away from rice also in case he has grain issue?

Does anything think it might be something else? No weight loss so EPI is probably out. Vet arlready thought of SIBO, but nothing shows in tests. But did Flagyl anyway just in case

We bought some venison/sweet potato but have not stated. We wanted to see some firmness.

So he has been on a bland diet of hamburger and rice (1:2 ratio, 1.5 cups per meal with probiotic and tsp of pumpkin) for the most part now for two weeks. I am concerned about nutruents through since he is so young.

Any thoughts would be helpful

 

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looks like his food is flying through his intestines.. its the right color... for still being in the intestines.. so he could have a bout of minor diarrhea? bile makes the poo green, but bacteria turns it brown....
 

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looks like his food is flying through his intestines.. its the right color... for still being in the intestines.. so he could have a bout of minor diarrhea? bile makes the poo green, but bacteria turns it brown....
Been going on 17 days now. We thought minor also, but seems to long now especially with bland diet.
 

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as long as its not runny, your fine... most likely the darker harder stool before the green stuff was part of the bismuth? i dunno if they make immodium for dogs but you can try it and see if helps for a small period of time... probiotics can take about 14 days to start working...
 

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Venison is sometimes to rich for dogs and I would not start that right now. I would however stop all food for 24 hours and only offer water. After the 24 hour period I would feed him boiled chicken and brown rice 3x a day in small quantities. When he has firm poop I would then add in his kibble very slowly.
 

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Venison is sometimes to rich for dogs and I would not start that right now. I would however stop all food for 24 hours and only offer water. After the 24 hour period I would feed him boiled chicken and brown rice 3x a day in small quantities. When he has firm poop I would then add in his kibble very slowly.

Been there did that way back on October 25th at the very start of the problem.

Still ended up with soft poo after starting up the boiled chicken.

We took him to vet on day 10 due to still no firm after all that.

Course now after 2 weeks of this bland diet I have a major hungry 5 month old and still no firm.
 

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Are you an engineer or have a science background? I am impressed with your info and timeline!

Sorry I can't help, but with all that info, I bet you get some answers soon. Good luck with your puppy.
 

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Looks to me like what I see when I'm either feeding a little too much...OR when my dogs are running and are exercising a lot. Movement seems to stimulate the bowels so that last little bit that was maybe still in the works gets pushed out and is a little soft. And now that puppy is five months I would bet he's hitting the "crazy puppy" phase- or at least I've noticed an increase in my pups energy level and exercise around then.

Looks like there's also some mucus to it...which I get with dairy or sometimes just a stomach bug. Rice tends to bind them up which is probably why you're seeing improvement there. I would not go crazy switching things around with the diet. As long as he's getting Flagyl it'll probably just clear itself up.

I really wouldn't panic about it.
 

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Are you an engineer or have a science background? I am impressed with your info and timeline!

Sorry I can't help, but with all that info, I bet you get some answers soon. Good luck with your puppy.
LOL. Yes I work in a field where we take detailed observations :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Looks to me like what I see when I'm either feeding a little too much...OR when my dogs are running and are exercising a lot. Movement seems to stimulate the bowels so that last little bit that was maybe still in the works gets pushed out and is a little soft. And now that puppy is five months I would bet he's hitting the "crazy puppy" phase- or at least I've noticed an increase in my pups energy level and exercise around then.


Looks like there's also some mucus to it...which I get with dairy or sometimes just a stomach bug. Rice tends to bind them up which is probably why you're seeing improvement there. I would not go crazy switching things around with the diet. As long as he's getting Flagyl it'll probably just clear itself up.

I really wouldn't panic about it.
Food Amount: Thought about amount. Reduced rice/meat feeding amount. Down to 1 cups rice/ half cup meat per meal with probiotic and a little pumpkin. Which by the way is making him horribly hungry.

He has now been on meat/rice diet for 16 days.

Activity Level: My boy is in daycare.

A. Picked something up at daycare?: This was first thing we thought of. Ran all checks (clean as whistle).

B. High Activity: He runs his little pattotie off all day I hear. He is so dog friendly he has little pals hanging off his body and apparently love it. He has been so happy since starting there. He actually scratches their door and flies the leash off my hand so he can get inside.

So yes, his activity level is off the scale during the day. He sacks out in the evening about 7:30 from a full day.

I considered that (of course he is soft morning too after a nights rest and sleep and soft on weekends when he is chilling)

Nutritional Requirements: What worries me is nutrition. Trying to move him back to kibble from the burger/rice makes him pudding which is not good. At the same time he will not get proper nutrition off the rice/meat.

Medication: Flagyl prescription is over tomorrow after a week and long term that medication is risky for neurological effects so I don't want to keep him on it.

So the question might be since his activity is off the scale or he has a food intolerance, what to do?
 

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I've been having a similar problem with my 5 month old. We've tested for all bacteria, EPI, and a couple other things. I had him on Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Bison. It improved from the Solid Gold Large Breed puppy so I was thinking he just was allergic to something in his food. The Natures Balance is a limited ingrediant and grain free but his poop was always a little off here and there. I do give him yogurt, pumpkin and blueberries here and there. It still didnt matter what I gave him, it was still "soft serve icecream" style like yours lol. I take him to a puppy socialization class every Saturday morning and there is another GSD that is 6 months old that had a similar problem. She switched him to raw food and has never looked back. I had started giving Brody raw food a while ago but the doctor made me stop in case he was having a bacterial infection from that. So the last 2 days I have been giving him Bravo raw food for breakfast and lunch and then for dinner I just give him the kibble with some cottage cheese...his poops have never been better, they dont smell like they used to, and its alot less poo! So I'm starting to do more research on the raw food, and eventually I'm going to go to all raw food. I got some books ordered that I can read. I know people say it is really simple, but I want to make sure I have a better understanding of how to do it. The Bravo food is more expensive, but its helping him so I'll stick with it, and eventually I can do my own raw food from the grocery store! Just a suggestion but maybe either try raw or a limited ingrediant food like Natural Balance. Don't try the venison flavor, that gave Brody the runs too!
 

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I've been having a similar problem with my 5 month old. We've tested for all bacteria, EPI, and a couple other things. I had him on Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Bison. It improved from the Solid Gold Large Breed puppy so I was thinking he just was allergic to something in his food. The Natures Balance is a limited ingrediant and grain free but his poop was always a little off here and there. I do give him yogurt, pumpkin and blueberries here and there. It still didnt matter what I gave him, it was still "soft serve icecream" style like yours lol. I take him to a puppy socialization class every Saturday morning and there is another GSD that is 6 months old that had a similar problem. She switched him to raw food and has never looked back. I had started giving Brody raw food a while ago but the doctor made me stop in case he was having a bacterial infection from that. So the last 2 days I have been giving him Bravo raw food for breakfast and lunch and then for dinner I just give him the kibble with some cottage cheese...his poops have never been better, they dont smell like they used to, and its alot less poo! So I'm starting to do more research on the raw food, and eventually I'm going to go to all raw food. I got some books ordered that I can read. I know people say it is really simple, but I want to make sure I have a better understanding of how to do it. The Bravo food is more expensive, but its helping him so I'll stick with it, and eventually I can do my own raw food from the grocery store! Just a suggestion but maybe either try raw or a limited ingrediant food like Natural Balance. Don't try the venison flavor, that gave Brody the runs too!
aww man! Just bought a small bag of the venison to try! Maybe get the LID California Natural Lamb.
 

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You can always try the venison! Who knows, everyone is different! We've learned to only buy the small bags too lol...Let me know if the venison doesnt work and you try the California Natural. That was going to be my next step of dry dog food! :) Good luck!! Its funny when your life revolves around dog poop!
 

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Oh, we had really good luck with California Naturals! With Rosa, once we got her on that she had the first ever consistently good poops. She's graduated to Evo/Acana now that she's older and can handle richer foods.

LOL, thought I recognized a fellow scientific mind! I bet you're good at your job.
 

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Lamb and rice dog food, and yogurt now and then is what's always worked with my dogs, I switched to lamb and rice with a dog I had about 10 years ago, she just went through time and time again with soft poo- diarhhea bouts. after I went to lamb and rice she did really well and I've just stayed with that mix for the rest of my dogs they've all done great on it.
 

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I went through the exact same thing you have been going through VegasResident. My GSD puppy (at the time) had the same look to her poo. LOL I finally took her off all food, fed her the ground hamburger (used paper towels to soak up any fat) and boiled rice for about 5 days. And then started incorporating Blue Buffalo Basics Salmon and Potato dry food. She hasn't had a problem with runny looking poo anymore. Before that my puppy was on a chicken/brown rice puppy formula and was given boiled chicken/rice when she was having poop issues. I would incorporate pumpkin in her diet too and that did nothing. I thought she might have had an allergy to chicken so thats why I switched. There are several salmon or fish flavors in different brands of dog food...give it a try. It can't hurt.

Good luck!
 

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Followup: Had vet followup. He decided to keep him on the flagyl and bismuth stuff with the probiotics and said that since my boy has been on bland now (rice/meat) for 2 weeks we needed to start trying to transition back in dog food and to do it while he was on meds

Food: Added 1/4 cup Lamb Grain free California Natural to meal last night and again this morning. Along with 1 cup rice and 1/4 cup boiled hamburger.

Result: Pudding poo this morning no gas. I kind expected this since he has not had dog food in well over a week of any kind so I am going to continue to work on adding it into diet slowly and see how he does over next 4 days since I cant just keep going back to the fast/bland diet every time I see the pudding. If I do that he will never get good food :)

Attitude and Appetite:
Still fantastic. In fact his energy went up after getting the little bit of dog food in both meals.
 

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A few Questions:

1. What is your timing with giving the flagyl and the probiotics and what probiotics are you giving? If you are giving them at the same time, then they are interferring with each other.

2. Honestly, as much as you want to give him kibble again, and he does need more food, something is still going on if he has soft poops with a simple bland diet.

3. Instead of rice (grain) and Chicken, did you ever try something grainfree bland. What works for me is Sweet potatoes, canned pumpkin and boiled ground beef (rinsed with water to remove the fat). Since I need to give probiotics between the Flagyl, I would feed 3 meals a day, and a night time snack.
AM: Bland diet, Flagyl
Noon: Bland Diet, Probiotics
PM: Bland Diet, Flagyl
Snack before bed: probotics mixed in with some canned pumpkin.

I know his had a fecal, but did the vet specifically check for Giardia? Normal fecals don't check for that and it is hard to diagnose. It is also easily picked up.
 

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A few Questions:

1. What is your timing with giving the flagyl and the probiotics and what probiotics are you giving? If you are giving them at the same time, then they are interferring with each other.

2. Honestly, as much as you want to give him kibble again, and he does need more food, something is still going on if he has soft poops with a simple bland diet.

3. Instead of rice (grain) and Chicken, did you ever try something grainfree bland. What works for me is Sweet potatoes, canned pumpkin and boiled ground beef (rinsed with water to remove the fat). Since I need to give probiotics between the Flagyl, I would feed 3 meals a day, and a night time snack.
AM: Bland diet, Flagyl
Noon: Bland Diet, Probiotics
PM: Bland Diet, Flagyl
Snack before bed: probotics mixed in with some canned pumpkin.

I know his had a fecal, but did the vet specifically check for Giardia? Normal fecals don't check for that and it is hard to diagnose. It is also easily picked up.
Hi All!

Colic? No. Colic is heavily associated with gas, of which my pup has none. Not even a fart with pudding poo. No gas, no gas pains, no running out to poop right after eating, extremely playful and regular number of poops per day.

As to questions:

1. Flagyl and probiotic are at same time morning and evening. Probiotic is Fortiflora. I will split them up. Sounds like good idea.

2. Something else or Giardia?: Agree something else could be going on. Could be coliits from just irritation for so many days or intolerance to something in bland diet. Flagyl (Metronidazole) does treat Giardia and vet wanted to be sure to address this since it can be hard to see in any sample.

3. Intolerance Moves: We took out chicken and already replaced with low fat heavily rinsed hamburger and are moving grain free as we speak :) Canned pumpkin already in the mix :) Was doing 3x day, will add snack in evening.

Will be back with status in about 2 days!
 
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