[Frisco19]

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/11/15/7-german-shepherds-nh-surgery

So uncommon to be afflicted with hip dysplasia at this age. So irresponsible of the breeder for even having a second litter.

 

[Sunsilver]

Would love to know the pedigree!!
And yeah, how COULD she allow a second breeding?? Grrrr...

 

[readaboutdogs]

They are cute pups, hope they get their adopters. Would they have to wait to do the surgery since they'd still be growing?

 

[selzer]

I watched the video, where does it say she had a second litter? I haven't heard of an entire litter needing surgery, that's awful. They seem like nice puppies, I hope they get the help they need.

 

[Frisco19]

Read the article in the link

 

[selzer]

The link doesn't work for me. I went to u-tube, entered the title of your link and found the same picture (not on u-tube) and watched the video. No article, just the news report.

 

[CometDog]

Are Xrays cited? Ddi they do Xrays? Cow hocked (admittedly severe) and the wobblies in an 8 month old SL is not a doomsday HD indicator.

 

[selzer]

Ok, I found the article. It is the second litter that they had taken in from the same breeder, not necessarily the second litter from the same bitch. It sounds like the breeder was over her head. The pups did not sell and were 8 months old when she surrendered them, knowing that they have issues, but also that she is having issues and cannot care properly for them.

To her credit, she did not allow them to become terribly neglected. She called for help which in all these instances of seizures we demand why breeders won't ask for help. She did. We have no idea what her circumstances were ten months ago when she bred this litter, or the previous litter that she let go two months earlier.

Life sometimes happens in a heart beat. A death in the family, a loss of a job, a medical problem, a car crash. She could have put down the puppies and no one but her vet would have known. She could have taken the litter to an out of town vet and put them down. They will put down puppies that are as affected as these pups are, if asked to.

But she surrendered them in hopes of the puppies being given the surgeries they need and good homes. And I hope that is what happens.

I also hope that the rescue agreed to do this on the condition that the bitches that produced these puppies be spayed, and if she owns the dog, that he be neutered as well. A rescue might solicit funds for helping these puppies out, but to be responsible, they really need to try to ensure more like them will not be produced.

We do not know how old the second litter was. If it was a couple of months older than the second litter, and they are not as affected, there was no way she could have known 10 months ago when she bred the dam of these puppies that there would have been a problem like that with dysplasia.

So let's not bash her. She produced dogs that have a problem. And she couldn't manage it for whatever reason, so she took steps to provide for the dogs.

 

[CatMan900]

I just wish there was a way we could breed hip dysplasia out of this amazing breed ?

 

[germanshepowner]

This is so heartbreaking. I feel sick reading this. She has no excuse. Nobody has an excuse for that. That video is hard to watch. I’ll be donating and sharing. ?

 

[Sabis mom]

I just wish there was a way we could breed hip dysplasia out of this amazing breed ?

Umm, we can. For the hereditary causes anyway. Hip dysplasia is a broad term for a host of issues caused by environment, diet, handling and genetics. With screening and knowledge of lines breeders have the tools to ensure that bad hips are not being reproduced. And dogs with good hips to start with have a huge advantage when it comes to the other causes.
A breeding may still produce a "one of" pup but to produce a whole litter this bad there is a genetic issue. This particular breeder may have ultimately acted in the best interest of the dogs, but she is a prime example why lovers of the breed, or animals in general, respond poorly to "I have a pretty dog and I want to breed it." A pair with bad hips can still produce sound pups, which is why it is important to track pedigrees because they won't stay good through subsequent generations without care in what is bred in.

 

[selzer]

I don't know if you can breed it out. The Germans (SV) has been demanding hip scores for decades, and no dog without hip scores can be bred, and yet dogs with the proper papers from the SV are still producing HD. It would have been bred out if it could be. I also do believe that there is a component that is environmental, but for a whole litter to be affected, I have to agree, this is genetic.

 

[Sabis mom]

I don't know if you can breed it out. The Germans (SV) has been demanding hip scores for decades, and no dog without hip scores can be bred, and yet dogs with the proper papers from the SV are still producing HD. It would have been bred out if it could be. I also do believe that there is a component that is environmental, but for a whole litter to be affected, I have to agree, this is genetic.

I do agree that it may never be entirely bred out, but cases this severe could be prevented. Not just the severity of the dysplasia, but the extremely young age and the fact that the entire litter is affected.
Many dogs that show bad hips in x-rays are never really affected by it. Sabi had horrible hips. The x-rays were awful and the ortho specialist swore surgery was my only option. Apparently Sabi did not get the memo. Other then occasional acupuncture she never received treatment. In her case the sockets were far too shallow. Clearly the ligaments were strong enough. I only had the x-rays done because she was under for her spay and I wanted them.

 

[selzer]

I do agree that it may never be entirely bred out, but cases this severe could be prevented. Not just the severity of the dysplasia, but the extremely young age and the fact that the entire litter is affected.
Many dogs that show bad hips in x-rays are never really affected by it. Sabi had horrible hips. The x-rays were awful and the ortho specialist swore surgery was my only option. Apparently Sabi did not get the memo. Other then occasional acupuncture she never received treatment. In her case the sockets were far too shallow. Clearly the ligaments were strong enough. I only had the x-rays done because she was under for her spay and I wanted them.

I agree with that, I have a bitch who had terrible hips at 2. She is 10.5 now, no surgery, no acupuncture. She is doing just fine. But her hips never dislocated. I think those dogs were walking funny and they said their hips were dislocating.

I don't know that rushing to surgery is the best option in a lot of cases. Joy compensated for her hips. She has had a full life we did some puppy agility before the diagnosis, and of course did none of that after. She was titled in Rally and got her CGC. But I did not go on to anything with jumps. That is just something we can live with.

 

[Sabis mom]

@selzer-yes. With young pups I would rather see efforts to strengthen and protect those hips until critical growth is done. Provided that they can live relatively pain free. Once development is complete then a proper assessment can be made. I think often folks jump to surgery when there is a chance that had they waited the dogs could have had other options.
Now in this case, given the strong possibility that there are environmental contributors that played into it, these pups may have no other options. I do believe it is absolutely genetic but I also think that circumstances like improper footing and care and/or poor nutrition may have contributed to the severity that is now seen.
It's a tragic situation. I certainly hope that these pups have good lives, but I also question the decision by a rescue to put tens of thousands of dollars, and the fosters to recover at into a litter that may or may not have any quality of life afterwards. They are young, surgery is intense and there are no guarantees.

 

[JonRob]

It's a tragic situation. I certainly hope that these pups have good lives, but I also question the decision by a rescue to put tens of thousands of dollars, and the fosters to recover at into a litter that may or may not have any quality of life afterwards. They are young, surgery is intense and there are no guarantees.

No, it's not tragic. For once a rescue group is doing something right for some disabled dogs. Assuming they get them total hip replacements that are done by a really good surgeon instead of going cheap with crappy FHO's. And do it ASAP, because the dogs are clearly in pain. At 10 months, the growth plates that matter here are usually closed, so there's usually no reason not to do the surgery then.

Question the decision? What should the rescue folks do instead? Kill these lovely sweet GSDs who are behaving so well despite the pain? The video shows absolutely wonderful temperaments. My girlfriend and I are both disabled and we're not real thrilled with the idea that disabled dogs should be killed just because they can be expensive. Also, we've had 8 total hip replacements put in dogs and it wasn't that big a deal although they were expensive. Only one failed, and that was our fault for trusting the vet who recommended the surgeon we used. Never again.

 

[selzer]

No, it's not tragic. For once a rescue group is doing something right for some disabled dogs. Assuming they get them total hip replacements that are done by a really good surgeon instead of going cheap with crappy FHO's. And do it ASAP, because the dogs are clearly in pain. At 10 months, the growth plates that matter here are usually closed, so there's usually no reason not to do the surgery then.

Question the decision? What should the rescue folks do instead? Kill these lovely sweet GSDs who are behaving so well despite the pain? The video shows absolutely wonderful temperaments. My girlfriend and I are both disabled and we're not real thrilled with the idea that disabled dogs should be killed just because they can be expensive. Also, we've had 8 total hip replacements put in dogs and it wasn't that big a deal although they were expensive. Only one failed, and that was our fault for trusting the vet who recommended the surgeon we used. Never again.

I think a rescue that relies upon voluntary donations has to be seen to be using the money responsibly. If you could save 10 dogs for the price of each one of these... And yet, yes they have good temperaments and will make nice pets, if they can walk. I don't believe every dog out there should be saved. If these dogs were burned over 90% of their bodies, I would be fuming that they are still alive and no one had taken pity on them and put them down. But the prognosis and the amount of pain that these dogs seem to be in, if at all possible, I would hope that they do try to fix them and get them into homes. It almost seems sometimes that the HD gene is coupled with the super sweet gene. I think that it is tragic that these youngsters are afflicted this badly this young, and if they cannot find 80k-100k they are not going to be able to fix them.

 

[Sabis mom]

No, it's not tragic. For once a rescue group is doing something right for some disabled dogs. Assuming they get them total hip replacements that are done by a really good surgeon instead of going cheap with crappy FHO's. And do it ASAP, because the dogs are clearly in pain. At 10 months, the growth plates that matter here are usually closed, so there's usually no reason not to do the surgery then.

Question the decision? What should the rescue folks do instead? Kill these lovely sweet GSDs who are behaving so well despite the pain? The video shows absolutely wonderful temperaments. My girlfriend and I are both disabled and we're not real thrilled with the idea that disabled dogs should be killed just because they can be expensive. Also, we've had 8 total hip replacements put in dogs and it wasn't that big a deal although they were expensive. Only one failed, and that was our fault for trusting the vet who recommended the surgeon we used. Never again.

Wow. Bit out of context, not all but some.
First, we have no clue what the real issue is. HD is a rather broadly used term. Second we don't know about secondary damage. Third the video clearly stated that they were hoping to raise enough for the surgeries, so the pups could be waiting months. Then you have recovery time and no guarantees that these surgeries will work, or that the pups will survive anesthetic. They do seem sweet pups but who knows what weeks of forced inactivity will do. One of the reasons I never considered surgery for Sabs when it was recommended was because I knew what forced inactivity would do. Years later when I forced her to retire I was proved right. She became sullen and miserable and sad. I think as people sometimes we need to consider the best course for the animal, not for us. What is right for one may not be right for others
Rescues do a lot of good but they have constraints. We had at best 16 spots, if a dog needed care for 6 months for a surgical recovery that meant that potentially I was killing a couple that I had no space for. Not to say I did not do it, but the knowledge weighed into the decision every time.
The reason that 100% of Shadows care came out of my pocket, that I never added her to the books, was so that I was not draining resources for a pup that by all accounts would not survive.

 

[JonRob]

I think that it is tragic that these youngsters are afflicted this badly this young, and if they cannot find 80k-100k they are not going to be able to fix them.

Tragic would be the shelter taking the view that they could save 10 dogs for the price of saving one of these dysplastic dogs and executing these sweet pups. Tragic would be if the breeder had quietly executed them herself. Yes, they are getting a painful start in life, but if the rescue folks do right by them they have a very good chance of happy lives with little or no pain. And it won't be 80k-100k, since most dysplastic dogs need only one total hip replacement to do well even when both hips are dysplastic. Also, once this kind of publicity happens with such adorable sweet pups, the money needed usually comes pouring in. If these pups weren't there and publicized, the money wouldn't come pouring in. So taking care of these pups properly isn't taking anything away from other dogs. Smart rescue folks know how to use publicity to raise funding for dogs like these.

Then you have recovery time and no guarantees that these surgeries will work, or that the pups will survive anesthetic. They do seem sweet pups but who knows what weeks of forced inactivity will do. One of the reasons I never considered surgery for Sabs when it was recommended was because I knew what forced inactivity would do. Years later when I forced her to retire I was proved right. She became sullen and miserable and sad.

What kind of vets have you been using? Anesthetic deaths in properly done veterinary medicine are extremely rare. Also, nothing in life is guaranteed. You could get run over by a car tomorrow and land all busted up in the hospital. And I'll bet you'd choose surgery followed by weeks of forced inactivity over being executed, even if it did make you temporarily sullen and miserable and sad.

Again, done correctly, a total hip replacement is not that big a deal. Yeah, the dog feels so much better after a few days postop that he wants to rock and roll and gets frustrated when he can't, but time passes, he heals, and life is grand.

 

[JonRob]

If these dogs were burned over 90% of their bodies, I would be fuming that they are still alive and no one had taken pity on them and put them down.

Here's one dog who is mighty grateful that you weren't the one who decided his fate:

www.yahoo.com/entertainment/severely-burned-dog-rises-ashes-194623762.html

My girlfriend used to work in an animal killing field (called a "shelter") and the culture of death there drove her nuts. It was all about thinking of reasons to justify killing instead of thinking hard and creatively and doing research to find ways to heal and save and get the money to do it. Which is why it is so aggravating to see the rescue folks with these dysplastic pups getting slammed for doing right by them.