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Discussion Starter #1
DH and I are thinking that we got extremely lucky with Rocky. He was basically housebroken in a few weeks. crate trained without problems, learned the commands fairly easy, kind of laid back, does not surf the counter or the table, etc.

Apollo on the other hand is the exact opposite. He is now trying to counter surf and table surf. He is also a jumper, if I turn around when he tries to jump on me, he still jumps. If I walk away he is chasing me jumping on me. The only command he knows and really listens to is sit. He has started peeing from excitement in the house. He wont go into his crate, we have to physcially pick him up and put him there. If Rocky is anywhere around Apollo he does not get 5 minutes peace. He barks at everyone he comes in contact with besides our immediate family members. He is terrified of loud noises, especially thunder. Not to mention he is very stubborn. You can redirect him 20 times from the same thing, even pick him up and move him and if he wants what he cant have he will go right back for it.

I am basically at my wits end. We have been trying everything we can think of to help him learn commands and it is just not working. What are we doing wrong? We are using positive reenforcements, treats, praise, and nothing is working.
 

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lol sounds just like my boy when he was a wee little pup. the only time i had his attention was if i had a treat in my hand. going through training he kinda got less excited about the treats and worked better for a toy. maybe u could try a toy as a reward?? also are u wearing him down?? i know i had to excersise the crap outa tyson when he was a pup (without over excerting(sp) just to get him to calm down
 

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Yes exercise him.

I wish I could help Brady was exactly like Rocky when he was a pup. They only thing he hated the crate.
 

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Is Apollo from working lines because he sounds like a typical working line puppy!

For the jumping. Turn away from him and STAY turned away from him. If he spins around to face you keep turning in a circle. Even if he keeps jumping on you for 30 MINUTES - keep turning away. He will eventually get the idea and stop. At that moment you have to give him quiet praise and play with him.

Make sure there is a treat at the far back of his crate EVERY time you want him to go in there. I start my fosters crate training this way. I'll spend about an hour just tossing treats into the back of the crate and letting them go in, eat it and come out. Only after they are going in and out without a problem do I shut the door. Eventually I work them up to going into the crate when I make the throwing motion with my arm (but not throw the treat). Once they are in and find no treat they turn around and THEN I give it to them. I start adding the command at that point and soon they will go in their crate on command because they know they get the treat AFTER they are in there.

I ALWAYS give my dogs treats for being crated (or x-penned) - even 11 yr old Riggs.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have done the spinning in a circle, walking away, ignoring him, etc. Nothing is working. For example, we are trying to train him to bark if he wants to come in or go out. Insteand he choses to jump on the doors and scratch. I have told him no and sat him down probably 100 times, and he still jumps on the door.

I have tried to treat in the crate. He will not go into the crate to get the treat.

I have tried to tired him out. He will only sleep for about an hour at a time. He runs with Rocky non stop. We will walk, I work on training to try to tire him out.

I am at a complete loss here. I just dont know what to do anymore. It is almost as if he just doesnt understand it. I dont know what lines he is from, not sure a spawn of satan would be a true bloodline. LOL
 

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Hi Danielle- I know you have been working so hard with Apollo. It's discouraging sometimes, but he WILL get it as long as you remain consistent and provide an outlet for all that energy!

Have you checked out any puppy classes? Rugen just 'graduated' last week. Apollo is now 3 months old? Perfect time to enroll- Most* classes allow playtime for the pups to teach them proper doggie social skills, which may make life for Rocky easier. I saw some serious transformations in the class. By the end of the class all the little pups were well on their way. It helps to have the structure of a class and a trainer who breaks things down for you to work on throughout the week.

Good Luck with the exorcism!
 

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Consistency. Time. Patience. Keefer was not nearly as easy as Dena either, so I just had to work a little harder and a little longer at everything. He took about a month longer to housebreak. He fussed in his crate, and needed to go out during the night MUCH longer than she did. He's almost 3 years old, and he'll still jump when he gets excited. Fortunately he's really food motivated, so he would "work for food", and I practiced strict NILIF with him.

Basically, bad behavior NEVER works to get Apollo what he wants. Make him work for everything. Eventually he will figure out that if he cooperates with you, he'll get what he wants, but if you're not consistent it will take longer. Never eats a meal unless he sits calmly while you put the bowl on the floor, never gets attention unless he stops jumping and sits, never comes in the house until he sits and gives you eye contact, never gets a bone or bully stick until he sits and gives eye contact, never goes for a walk until he can sit while you clip on the leash, etc. Never.

I think it's easier to teach a dog to ring a bell to go out rather than to bark. You can show him how by ringing the bells and associating it with a cue (outside) every time the door opens. My dogs won't bark on cue, and I'd just as soon not encourage them to bark anyway (they find plenty of reasons on their own, lol!), so I'm not sure how to go about training that. Even though we only have bells on the inside of the door, my dogs won't bark when they want to come back in. They'll sometimes whine, but usually they'll just nudge the doorknob with their noses, which makes enough of a sound that we can hear them from the office, where we spend a lot of our time at home.

Before we got the bells for Cassidy she'd sit by the backdoor and wait to be noticed. And wait, and wait, and wait. And then if she REALLY had to go and we hadn't noticed she was MIA, she come into the living room and sit in front of the TV and stare at us. Quietly. She would NOT bark!
But she picked up the bells in two days.
 

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You guys are ovewhelmed.. and Baby Apollo is underwhelmed! Why, he's just warming up!
Having had a workingline puppy, I can honestly say-- someone needs to find time for classes with Apollo. The trainer absolutely without a doubt needs to be someone who understands strong-minded working dogs. This way you guys get support, guidance, AND an outlet during this rough time with Apollo. You can get through this. A class taught by someone familiar with strongminded dogs would be ideal!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I have briefly looked into training classes. As of right now, I barely have time to eat or sleep. DH is still under restrictions from the Dr that limit what he can and cant do.

Thanks for the suggestions. Most of the things are already being done. Oh and Cassidys mom reminded me he is a barker. He barks at Rocky, to get out of his crate, at anyone we come across, just not when we want him too.
 

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Sorry to say at 12 weeks the fun has yet to begin. You need to get him into class.

My boxer was a total nightmare for almost the first year. Luckily Quincy is more like Rocky.

I defifinately understand the feeling of being overwhelmed. Just keep up the work and you will eventually see results.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Last night DH and I took the dogs for a walk. Of course Rocky can walk faster than Apollo. I was trying to work with Apollo in staying next to me, instead he was running ahead. Of course when I stopped walking he kept going and was jerking himself in the air. I told DH he is gonna end up choking himself.

DH took him outside let him potty, brought him back in the house and was playing with him in the kitchen, and he peed. I brought them back in from pottying, he walked over to the carpet and peed.

MJB we have been working on this stuff for 6 weeks and IMO he seems to be getting worse. I just cant figure out what we are doing wrong here.
 

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Not really unusual, I think. Sounds like a normal pain puppy! Anka was more difficult than Argos too. My experience...

When we walk Anka with Argos she strains at her leash, gasping for air, wheezing the whole way. For awhile we wouldn't walk them together, but separate so she could learn to walk nicely without straining towards her "best friend". Keep in mind, from what I can tell, it looks like you raised Rocky when he was an only dog. Raising an only dog is easier than adding a new dog IMO, because there are so many other factors to consider when you teaching 2 dogs to interact in the house. Another dog can be extremely stimulating for your puppy. Keep in mind for the first 2 months of his life he lived with his litter mates, who were always ready to play and have fun. Other dogs are usually more ready to engage or play than we are, so dogs can be more fun. You have to teach him how to live with people. Rocky had no choice, you were all he had.

How are you using the crate? Does he have to go in? Are you giving him an option? My dogs were not really going into their crate on command until they were about 6 months old. We always feed in their crate and give all the best chew treats in their crate. Now if I go to get food dishes, I come back to find them sitting in their crate waiting for dinner. But it was a forced issue for awhile. Crate means crate. It's not bad, you get snacks, but I really don't care if you'd rather play and be outside, now is crate time, go and ahead and cry all you want, it's just the way it is.

As far as the peeing. Is he peeing outside when you take him out? And then peeing again once you get in? My male has an enormous bladder and will easily pee 10 times on a walk. He could not be emptying his bladder because he gets distracted or he wants to go real quick so he can get back inside. I notice our female does that. She'll be peeing, see some bug, stop peeing, chase it, and then pee again. How do you handle his water intake? My male would tank on water. He would glurp away a whole big bowl, and obviously have to pee again in like 20 minutes. I started giving him water in smaller increments. I might only fill his bowl an inch. let him drink and chill. Then 5 minutes later, another inch. So he always got the water he needed, but he had the opportunity to realize he didn't need to drink the whole darn bowl in one sitting. As far as the peeing, I would start crating again. Out to play, back in the crate. Out to pee, doesn't pee? Back in the crate. Out of the crate? Right outside. If he should happen to pee inside while you're playing interrupt and take him out to finish. And then back in the crate. Give him a potty on command word, so when he does go outside you can order him to potty, lots of praise. Hang in there he'll get it. Keep in mind, when he's this young, they really don't have full muscle control on their bladder.

He also sounds really high energy. You might be hard pressed to wear him out physically, but there's always mental exercise! I like to get those treat balls and basically put their breakfast kibble in there. Working out how to eat can keep my puppy working on it for a good 40 minutes. I throw the ball in their crate with them and just let them go.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
His peeing in the house is not a housebreaking issue exactly. Most of the in the house peeing is the dribble, submissive peeing. We are not talking about huge puddles. Not sure where this came from it is all very new.

Apollo is in the crate when we are not here and at night. His crate is not an option. Someone suggested throwing a treat in his crate and this has been working very well. I prefer to not keep him locked up all the time. When I take him out to go potty he will pee at least twice before we come back in, when he goes outside I always tell him Apollo go potty, and he always get a ton of praise for it. I am thinking of maybe adding treats when he goes outside, hoping that he will stop the submissive peeing in the house.

He is very high energy. We are taking him for walks, he plays with Rocky for hours on end, we working on training with him. He is very hard to tire out. LOL

Having 2 dogs is a lot more work. HM I like the idea of walking them separately, but I also want to be able to walk them together.
 

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Kc was like Apollo. Lots of energy, barks at everything and pees in the house even though she is potty trained. The peeing though has gotten less and less over time. But she still does it at least once a week now.
We play as much as we can with her. Take her for very long walks, yesterday was almost 4 hours, and normally we limit them to 2 hours. Dog club is always on Saturday afternoon. She really doesn't like her crate either. For a whole month and some when we first brought her home she was cry, bark, whine, you name it in the crate for HOURS! Now she only does it in the morning. She isn't treat motivated and just a little motivated for toys. Enough to get somewhere with her. So you aren't alone right now with going a little crazy trying to find new outlets for their energy.

Just don't give up on such a cutie. I am sure you won't.

Why not go for two walks with him once alone and once with Rocky?
 

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Radar is 5 months old and is as wild as can be! If I am fixing him a bowl of food and turn my back he can have it off of the counter in a second- he's done it twice. The second time I knew better but he was faster than me. lol. Radar has also been jumping when excited and we are using what most have suggested and it may be getting a little better. The good news is that even know he's a mess at home we had him at the training field this weekend and the training director told me he couldn't be doing any better for his age! Get that dog into a sport and he will use all that energy and be a star! Tons of energy, smarty pants, persistant... sounds like a competition dog to me!
 
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