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Sit / Stay versus Down / Stay

1061 Views 12 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  doggiedad
I have taught Karma a very good stay for a 16 wk old pup ( i think ). I use two door mats about 30ft apart and have taught her to target each one as a base for her commands. Eg;

"On your mat" click & reward as soon as she hits it
"sit" click reward

Here is my ?? ;

When I stay her in the sit position she nearly always drops to the down position as I walk off to the other end of the room. It's like she says
" well....i know you won't be back for a minute or two so I am going to take it easy".

This does not bother me in the slightest as the most important thing to me is that she STAY which she does....excellently. I then walk back release with a "Let's go" and tell her " get over on your mat" and she bolts to the other end of the room and hits the next mat.

How many of you experience this and do you work on correcting to a proper SIT STAY etc....

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Uschi was a natural downer- I mean you say down and she throws herself down to the floor and you can't peel her off. Stosh, being a still intact boy, is not so fond of the down/stay but now that he's discovered the joys of napping while obeying a command is not resisting as much. In class we try our best to keep the sit or down with the stay, in home life, as long as they stay put and watch me I'm not too picky about whether they're sitting or laying down. As our first obedience class trainer put it, the main thing you want your dog to do is come when it's called, walk on a leash and stay where you want- everything else is add ons. It sounds as though Karma is coming along nicely! Good job
It's really up to you. My dogs have a really solid default down and tend to want to lay down and get comfy if they know they're going to be there awhile. But a sit/stay is a sit/stay! If there's no possibility that you're ever going to compete with her in obedience (where it's important that the dog remains in a sit if commanded to do so), and you really don't care if she lays down, then it doesn't matter at all.

If you do want to correct this, use a negative marker if she drops into a down and put her back in a sit. Work on sit/stays for shorter duration and at closer distance until she's reliable before increasing the difficulty.
Come. Check.
Walking on a lead . Check.
Stay. Check.
Drop it. Check.
Leave it. Check.
"Get busy" and pee on command . Check.
Go Outside. Check.
Take it outside. Check
In your chair. Check.
Kennel Up. Check.

I need to vary the mat routine now cos I think she has basically learnt the entire routine by heart. I think i could just say "On your mat" and she would go to the mat, sit,drop and stay all in one move !

I am starting on a formal heel soon.

I will never compete with her so the down / comfy / i am chillaxing position is fine with me !
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I agree with Debbie. For me, a sit stay is a sit stay. A dog that moves from a sit into a down without my command is breaking her sit. If that kind of stuff is important to you, then you have to use a negative marker every time she does that and put her back into a sit.
I need to vary the mat routine now cos I think she has basically learnt the entire routine by heart. I think i could just say "On your mat" and she would go to the mat, sit,drop and stay all in one move !
Nothin' wrong with that! For me, "go to your mat" includes an automatic down once the dog gets there, so that's what I train for. But you can decide whatever criteria you want to use in training, and if you don't want to be too predictable you can certainly mix things up so she can't always anticipate what you're going to ask for.

I will never compete with her so the down / comfy / i am chillaxing position is fine with me !
Sounds like the stay is more important to you than the position, and that's perfectly okay!
You're really doing well for your first gsd- guess it was karma after all.
I am working on that now....for me also a sit/stay is just that....he isn't to lay down unless he is released. I think it depends greatly on what your goals are how "strict" you are with exact commands.
I agree with Renee. If I ask Hondo to sit/stay, he is not allowed to down. If he does, I correct him "No, Sit!" "Good Sit, Stay" If I'm asking him to stay for a longer period of time, I'll set him up to succeed by asking for a down/stay.

If I have Hondo at a stay for a reason - like the cat is walking up from the barn - he is more successful at the down stay, even when his brain is going 100 miles an hour watching that cat. If he is in the sit/stay - he'll get vocal watching the cat and then burst. At the down I can monitor his body better, a twitch and I'll say "no, stay!". A twitch at the sit/stay I'm already too late.
How does one mark negatively ? A firm "NO" ?
I prefer not to use "no". It's fine for when the dog is doing something you don't want them to do EVER, (in my house that would be chasing kitties!), but a negative marker is often referred to as a "no reward marker", which just means that whatever the dog is doing is not what you asked for, so there will be no reward coming. It doesn't mean that what they did is bad, per se. I use "ah ah", or sometimes "oops!" as my negative marker. You can also say "wrong" or "try again", anything you want.
So if she foes into a lie when I have only sit SIT STAY, I would say "ah ah " and get her to SIT UP ( which she knows ) ?
sit, stay means sit and stay.
it doesn't mean down, stay.
i think when you give a command
it should be followed. if you give
a command and your dog does
something other than the command you
gave then it's not listening. when
my dog moved after i said sit, stay
i walked back to him and have him sit.
then i repeated the command sit, stay.

when i approach my dog while he's in a sit/stay i
want him to hold his postion untill i release him.
i step over my dog or walk a few circles around
him before i release him. i also run
towards him and around him.
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