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Discussion Starter #1
We have started training collected jumps with a single bar jump at agility class. I like my new instructor (and facility) a lot, and my instructor definitely has a passion for "beginner" dogs. It's great. That said, she told me she's never trained a GSD before. Not really a big deal- it's the foundations and theories that apply.

Anyway, one thing she showed us with her shetland sheepdog is how much the dog enjoys jumping. She directed him back and forth over and over and over. It was lightening fast. I realize it was a trained dog and all, but when I look at my 75lb GSD, I just can't get the mental picture in my head of how this is supposed to look. My dog simply can't bounce back and forth over that bar quickly like that.

I'm extra curious if any of you have video of simply directing your GSD back and forth over a single bar? I would LOVE to see how this should look for a GSD. I'm talking short collected jumps here.

Thanks! (Let me know if this request is unclear. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a similar youtube video to show as an example)
 

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To be clear, I am not actually making the rookie mistake of comparing my beginner dog to a very trained advanced dog and wondering why mine isn't as good... What I am actually asking is this:

How fast should a GSD be able to jump back and forth over a bar jump compared to the smaller agility dogs like shetland sheepdogs and shelties? Those small dogs excel at this drill because they can bounce back and forth so quickly. Should a GSD be able to excel at this drill? Should they have comparable speed?

I think we are doing ok- nothing great. But again, we have less than a week practicing this back and forth drill. I hurried home from work to take a video in what little light is still available after 5pm. Haha- I didn't even take the time to take my hat off!

 

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What I do is position my body to the side I want my dog to jump, this way I don't need to use my hands/arms.. let me see if I can find a video..
 

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I'd say that's pretty good jumping for having such a small area:) I think if you had a little more room, you wouldn't see any bars knocked, but you probably know that:)

Don't have any video's, but, just wanted to say, gsd's aren't going to jump or be as quick as those little shelties who can be maniacs:) The longer body, longer stride will make them a tad slower, bulkier, however, that longer stride, also allows them to cover more ground.

If you can find Greg Derrett's 'box' jumping (I'm sure he has it on video), that is a GREAT set up (tho I don't think you could do it in the house) using 4 jumps, with all kinds of combinations to work on tight turns, rear/front crosses, etc.

Your girl has EXCELLENT focus on what YOU want her to do, which is going to be a huge bonus in training:)
 

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I'd say that's pretty good jumping for having such a small area:) I think if you had a little more room, you wouldn't see any bars knocked, but you probably know that:)

Don't have any video's, but, just wanted to say, gsd's aren't going to jump or be as quick as those little shelties who can be maniacs:) The longer body, longer stride will make them a tad slower, bulkier, however, that longer stride, also allows them to cover more ground.

If you can find Greg Derrett's 'box' jumping (I'm sure he has it on video), that is a GREAT set up (tho I don't think you could do it in the house) using 4 jumps, with all kinds of combinations to work on tight turns, rear/front crosses, etc.

Your girl has EXCELLENT focus on what YOU want her to do, which is going to be a huge bonus in training:)
Thank you! This is exactly the kind of reply I am looking for. With all things, we need a control or a baseline in order to measure progress. For me, my only baseline right now are those maniac little dogs. I know enough to know that my dog shouldn't be able to jump as quickly as them- I was just looking for a baseline speed for a large breed dog. I will checkout the box jumping thing...
 

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One jump collected training is perfect for these winter days!

Here's Glory learning with a lower jump. It's important to be down on the ground with your treat filled fist on the ground right by the standard. We want our dogs to REALLY use their muscles to curl up and around and have their head focused DOWN. Later we can stand and drop the treat at the same spot on the ground, but if they start focusing more on us (and keep head high) we just need to sit on the ground again.

You build up to 24 - 26" MORE than their jump height if you can because it really teaches them to collect. Use just one bar, start with it low so they 'have' to go over and not under :) . You may have to raise your hand to lure them over and down the far side initially so they understand.


At around 6:30 in time on this next video you can see me standing


If I remember I'll try to get some up from later today in the house. Both Bretta and Glory are doing 26" in my den. Still do lower heights and build to the 26" in the session so I get a thinking jumper and to give them a bit of a break on the height while they still need to control their body (and BTW those long furry tails can be a bar knocking issue too!).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
(and BTW those long furry tails can be a bar knocking issue too!).
Thanks for the videos, MRL- I'll check them out in a bit. I found the part about tails super funny. One thing I continually have to point out to my instructor is that Pimg's tail nearly doubles her body length! She knocks the bar off quite often with her tail. Other than allowing her collected jump to land further from the jump, I've not come up with a good solution here.
 

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Ok- I couldn't resist but to watch the videos clips right now. One thing I noticed immediately in the first video is that Glory jumps straight over with her front legs, but then kinda pushes her back legs over sideways (spinning her body in the air). Pimg definitely does this too in collected jumps- most likely because she wants to see me when the jump completes.

My thought is that this is undesirable (and I get your dog is a pup in the clip) unless you are teaching the dog to wrap the jump. Otherwise, it would make sense that you want them to jump straight over- even if it's a collected jump. Thoughts?
 

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I think your girl looks great Wildo. She is nice and quick. You are not focused on speed right now when you are teaching the dog to jump and collect properly. I teach the same thing except slightly different. I use Linda Mecklenburg's one jump exercise. You start by sitting on the ground and allowing the dog to offer the back and forth. Your hands are low and it causes the dog to have to collect and round. The dog is not as focused on jumping round if the treats are initially being thrown from your hand to a lower point on the ground after she takes the jump. Eventually you stand up but only after you get to full height.

I can try and get video doing some today if it helps at all...
 

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The video of Glory B's pup is exactly what I want to see with that jumping exercise. It teaches the dog how jump with a rounded style and use his rear end to generate vertical propulsion. When teaching true collection, you don't want to encourage jumping more forward.

Using the body as the puppy was showing is much more difficult than jumping flat over a bar but landing close. That is still not a "rounded" style of jump.

Unless the dog is going to be initiating a tight turn, there is no reason for the dog to jump in collection. The dog should learn how to jump in extension when needed but change to a nice rounded and collected jump when he or she needs to be tight for a turn.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
When teaching true collection, you don't want to encourage jumping more forward.

Unless the dog is going to be initiating a tight turn, there is no reason for the dog to jump in collection. The dog should learn how to jump in extension when needed but change to a nice rounded and collected jump when he or she needs to be tight for a turn.
Duh! Haha, I guess that makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the clarification!
 

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Wildo, for COLLECTED jumping and body awareness over the jump, it's the curling I do want. This is actually the hardest way for our dogs to jump with the most control and ISSUES that need to be dealt with for their front/rear/tail!!!! So if they learn to properly do this from a standstill at the jump and leave the bar up at full height, then when you start adding the speed the body awareness will be in place. It sounds like Linda Mecklenburg has similar exercises.

Full speed extension type jumping is a different skill that our dogs have to learn and they need alot more distance than a single jump will 'teach'. I love Susan Salo's seminars and DVD's about this. Based on her experience with horses and how apparently humans realized long ago (from sitting on top of a horse) that they need to LEARN how to jump properly and if you don't teach them the human AND the horse can get injured. So horses and the 'jump' thing were dealt with long ago to keep all the riders alive. :)

In dogs, cause we don't get hurt just angry when our dogs misjudge and knock a bar on course, we were behind on the dogs haveing to LEARN striding, takeoff, landing, extension, collection, judgeing distances and took it for granted (heck, look how well my dog jumps on the bed!!!).

says Linda based and it's the same.
 
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