[hexakosioi]

Hi,
I have posted here a few times (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/diet-nutrition/294290-underweight-male-gsd-66-lbs.html , http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/295906-allergy-fungal-infection.html). Roy (2 yrs old) is basically losing weight (he was 66 lbs when I first saw him then 62 lbs a month later now he is 59 lbs). He is driving me nuts! Why won't he gain weight?! I have had him for 2 months, just last month I made 5 visits to the vet last one was yesterday. I recently switched him to a raw diet just last week and his appetite is much much better. I was hoping he would also gain weight with the raw diet but that did not happen!
Yesterday I made him take the CBC blood test the vet said he is ok. But he is not! Weight loss? I am looking at his test results and a few stuff seem concerning:
LYM is very low the lowest it can be.
LY is the lowest it can be too.
ALP(Alkaline Phosphatase) is very low 5 U/L should be between 20-150.
AMY(Amylase) is a bit low 182 U/L should be between 200-1200.
BUN is high 33 should be 7-25.

I searched about ALP & AMY online and what got is low numbers indicate signs of malnutrition. In my previous posts I have mentioned he is a lost dog and he appeared to be underfed. That was 2 months ago.

I have heard of a TLI test that would show if he has EPI disease or not. Does he sound like he has EPI? I don't know if there are any vets here that conduct this test.
This morning he vomited a huge chunk of meat from yesterday that looked really white. And his stool is back to being loose. Today he ate nothing.
BTW I can feel his ribs EASILY but because he has a lot of hair you can't see them.

Sorry for posting all over the forum but I am really nervous for him.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.




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[Jax08]

It's very possible he could have EPI. Has he been dewormed? Checked for Giardia?

High BUN could be dehydration or could be from the RAW diet. How was his CREA?

I find it odd that he is not eating. EPI dogs will eat but it goes right thru them. Does he often not eat?

 

[hexakosioi]

It's very possible he could have EPI. Has he been dewormed? Checked for Giardia?

High BUN could be dehydration or could be from the RAW diet. How was his CREA?

I find it odd that he is not eating. EPI dogs will eat but it goes right thru them. Does he often not eat?

He has been dewormed. Have not checked for Giardia. Vet confirms BUN is most likely from the RAW diet. CREA is good (0.7).

His appetite was really bad on kibble but he has been really good on raw. However today he did not feel like eating at all.

Btw here is a look at his stool (sorry everyone):


Small amounts, looks odd?



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[Sunflowers]

That looks completely loose and yellowish.
Not good.

Here is a link that explains more about yellowish and other poop:
Topic: All about POOP! - EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

 

[Jax08]

Get him checked for EPI. And Giardia. Any other water born bacteria common in your region? Continue feeding RAW since at least he will eat it. do you have any digestive enzymes and probiotics available to you? I don't think you should start enzymes prior to the test? It may skew the results?

 

[hexakosioi]

Off to the vet tomorrow!


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[Lauri & The Gang]

What was he dewormed with? Hooks can be hard to detect and can cause all sorts of problems. If he was a stray he had a good chance of picking them up.

 

[Momto2GSDs]

Jax gave you good advice on the enzymes & probiotics.
I agree with checking for epi.
My first dog had epi and I couldn't feed her any fat even though it was raw, so you may want to cut off any extra fat for a while until he gets regulated.
Also, the stool looks like my dogs did when they were "detoxing" from being on kibble and then switching to raw. Worse smelling bm's EVER!!!

 

[Jax08]

Nobody has asked this yet.

What exactly are you feeding for RAW? Are you making sure the bone to meat ratio is correct?

 

[hexakosioi]

I give 80% meat 10% bones 10% organs.


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[hexakosioi]

I give 80% meat (ground beef, beef heart) 10% RMB (chicken necks) 10% organs (beef kidneys, beef liver, sometimes eyeballs).



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[Jax08]

That's not enough RMB. I give 40% chicken necks, 55% MM and 5% OM every day. The 80/10/10 percentages are based on the 10% being ONLY bone. If you are just counting 10% chicken neck, you are not taking into consideration the meat that is on the neck. Try reconfiguring what you are feeding and see if the stools firm up.

 

[hexakosioi]

Went to the vet and he has no Giardia. No parasites. They could not test him for EPI (best vet in town?).
Anyway, look at his last stool (looks like blood):
View attachment 94121

Vet says looks like a viral infection? Can be deadly! She gave him a Marbocyl injection which he will have to take four other times.
I am really exhausted cause the vets don't seem to be sure what are doing around here.



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[hexakosioi]

Stool:



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[WVGSD]

That stool looks like hemorrhagic gastroenteritis type stool. When my GSD had this, it cleared up with metronidazole quickly. Here wer are able to get it in an oral pill.

 

[Cschmidt88]

I give 80% meat (ground beef, beef heart) 10% RMB (chicken necks) 10% organs (beef kidneys, beef liver, sometimes eyeballs).



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I may be wrong, there are some more experienced members on here. But that sounds very off for the first week of raw. (Unless I misread how long he's been on it?) Organs and beef heart are very rich and should be introduced later on.


I don't follow Prey model raw, but this is how I start all my dogs. And all have done fine, my GSD mix had a mild detox stage that lasted a few days but that was about it.
How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw

 

[Jax08]

Marbocyl Injection 10%

Marbofloxacin is a synthetic bactericidal antimicrobial belonging to the fluoroquinolone group, which acts by inhibition of DNA gyrase. It is effective against a wide range of Gram positive bacteria (in particular Staphylococci) and Gram negative bacteria (Escherichia coli, Salmonella typhimurium, Citrobacter freundii, Serratia marcesens, Morganella morganii, Proteus spp, Klebsiella spp, Shigella spp, Pasteurella spp, Haemophilus spp, Moraxella spp, Pseudomonas spp,) as well as Mycoplasma spp.

In cattle Marbocyl 10% is indicated for the treatment of respiratory infections caused by susceptible strains of organisms. It is also indicated in the treatment of acute E. coli mastitis. In pigs Marbocyl 10% is indicated in the treatment of Metritis Mastitis Agalactia syndrome caused by susceptible strains of organisms.

What exactly was this supposed to do for your dog?

 

[Momto2GSDs]

What exactly was this supposed to do for your dog?

That's what I was going to ask too! AND the vet is giving it by injection instead of tablets. eek

 

[ugavet2012]

Went to the vet and he has no Giardia. No parasites. They could not test him for EPI (best vet in town?).
Anyway, look at his last stool (looks like blood):
View attachment 94121

Vet says looks like a viral infection? Can be deadly! She gave him a Marbocyl injection which he will have to take four other times.
I am really exhausted cause the vets don't seem to be sure what are doing around here.



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This case needs to be actually WORKED UP not just guessing at this point! I can't tell by your first post if you got a full bloodwork panel but you need that and I would at least also do the Texas A&M GI Panel that tests for EPI, SIBO, etc (you can google this to read about it). If your current vet won't do it, go to another! Unless there's something I'm really really missing here there's no reason to think this dog has a viral infection....outside of parvovirus I have never treated or seen a case of severe diarrhea caused by a virus in a dog. Did he tell you what "virus"? Is this an older vet? It seems when I get dogs for second opinions for diarrhea from a "virus" it's typically older vets who usually get away with just doing regular diarrhea symptomatic treatment for an animal and just tell the owner it might be some kind of virus. I have no idea why your vet is essentially using just Baytril to treat this and in some kind of weird dosing schedule it sounds like. Find out WHAT you are treating and WHY those meds.

 

[Jax08]

It's a vet in Saudi Arabia.