German Shepherds Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,423 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
What detemines whether a dog is from American Show Lines or Pet Lines

Are there also German Show Line and Pet lines?


What about Working line and Working Pet lines?


Is it just a matter of titles in the pedigree?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,005 Posts
As I have heard the term used, it's not necessarily "pet lines" but basically in a litter of dogs who are bred "to the standard" (whichever one that would be), not all will go on to be "show quality" and thus are "pet quality".
That is, every line has the potential to produce dogs that are not able to be shown or worked for whatever reason, and become "pets" (that is, not show or working prospects).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,451 Posts
To me a "pet line" does not have a distinguishable type both in looks and in pedigree (for several generations).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,228 Posts
Commenting on the term America pet line, IMO, it is a blending of any GSD lines with no pedigree. Though 'purebred' there is no proof.
Many of the breeders are just breeding their 'pets' with no goals other than $.
Structurally usually have the larger ears, smaller head and any color, possibly longer legged in structure. I have one I consider an Am pet line...she comes from WL, Am SL's from what I can gather from her parents 'look'.
Supposedly both parents had papers, but the breeder never came thru with the dams, and the sire's owner never produced his, due to a falling out with the breeder.

I'm an admin on a local GSD page, and I swear 90% of the dogs on that page are Am pet lines from the look of them. We have more than a few byb's in my area!

Agree with msvette2u, pets come from all lines, but shouldn't be called pet lines.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,005 Posts
Lies, wouldn't that just basically be a BYB? Isn't the "goal" of a good breeder to breed to the standard? And if you were doing that, at least 1-2 of every litter should be a prospect anyway...?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,417 Posts
I have always understood the difference to be a showline (lets say American Showline, for the sake of argument) was breed with the purpose to produce puppies that could compete in that venue (AKC conformation). There will be puppies that are pet quality in any litter, no matter how purposeful the breeding or how well the parent dogs conform to the standard. Those pet quality puppies are considered pet quality American showline puppies.

The pet lines are purebred dogs, often registered with AKC (although sometimes not registered at all, or registered with a sham organization). For several generations there are dogs that were bred for no other reason than being purebred. No performance or competition titles. They may (or may not) have any health clearances. These are pets being bred to pets in order to produce more pets.

For what it is worth, there are WGSLs producing pets, too. The difference is that, in general, you don't have to go as far back in the pedigree to find a dog that is titled in something. Same with the working lines. As the sables become more and more popular, you see more and more pets from working lines that were produced for no other reason than to cash in on a color fad.

Pet quality pups can be from purpose bred, titled competition dogs. Pet line puppies are bred from other pet dogs, without any titles in any type of venue. Two different things. I often hear people say that American pet lines are based on American Showlines, in that if you go back far enough you will find dogs that competed in AKC events.
Sheilah
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,451 Posts
Lies, wouldn't that just basically be a BYB? Isn't the "goal" of a good breeder to breed to the standard? And if you were doing that, at least 1-2 of every litter should be a prospect anyway...?
I don't know, what some people call a BYB I call a nice breeder and sometimes what I call a BYB someone else calls a nice breeder.

A pet dog that comes from a nice litter is not what I'd call a "pet line" dog. The pedigree is what tells you what line the dog is. To me a pet line dog has no distinguishable line/type on paper for several generations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,884 Posts
pet lines are what happens when Sally meets David at the dog park and admire each others dogs -- and agree that the world needs to share their happiness . So arrangements are made to have the dogs "get together" .
Sometimes there is an inverse sense of the dogs being superior because there is no inbreeding (how do they know) and that because they are out of the loop they are less prone for breed problems .
There is no attempt at standards of any sort.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,423 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
What prompted me in asking this question is in the breeding section someone posted the pedigree of a dog who has the same sire as Benny and some said they were mostly American Pet lines. I knew nothing about pedigrees when I got Benny and just saw both parents and interacted with both parents. I liked how they looked and behaved toward me. ( aloof but confident) The breeder had not titled them because she is too busy taking care of all her dogs ( retired breeding dogs) as well those she breeds. She lives and manages the place alone) Behind the parents all were titled.

She told me that Benny was a mix of working and show line. He is not leggy, has a big head. She never mentioned pet lines and it seems to have an inferior connotation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
When I got my gsd from a breeder he gave me akc papers to register and his pedigree and said that he came from a working line. I didn't Care about where he came from all I care is that I get a healthy companion.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,452 Posts
A lot of people that comment on lines have pet knowledge of lines...so I wouldn't worry to much about that designation. Jmo
 

·
"I like Daffy" Moderator
Joined
·
3,276 Posts
I was the one who made the comment about "pet lines" about the dam side of the pedigree in question. It bothered me that people where calling her an "American show line" dog with only one show dog in the pedigree.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,124 Posts
Yeah...my opinion of "pet lines" is just dogs getting randomly thrown together. I believe most of them do have pedigrees and are akc registered (only way to know what lines they truly are). But its breeders that are taking advantage of whatever the popular color is at the time, or just believing they have two great dogs and they should be bred. Taking what is considered a "great pet" and making more of them.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,124 Posts
What prompted me in asking this question is in the breeding section someone posted the pedigree of a dog who has the same sire as Benny and some said they were mostly American Pet lines. I knew nothing about pedigrees when I got Benny and just saw both parents and interacted with both parents. I liked how they looked and behaved toward me. ( aloof but confident) The breeder had not titled them because she is too busy taking care of all her dogs ( retired breeding dogs) as well those she breeds. She lives and manages the place alone) Behind the parents all were titled.

She told me that Benny was a mix of working and show line. He is not leggy, has a big head. She never mentioned pet lines and it seems to have an inferior connotation.
I don't mean anything bad about your dog or your breeder...but the excuse she gave you is not one I would consider valid. Most show breeders are able to balance their older dogs and their young dogs that they are showing. If they can't handle the older ones, they usually rehome them. The large majority of "pet lines" have titled grandparents or great grandparents. It's how many people say "comes from champion lines" as long as there is a champion somewhere in the 3 or 5 generation pedigree...you can call them champion lines.

Just wanted to tell you that my boy comes from what most would consider pet lines as well...I didn't know any better back then. He's not any of the "conformation problems" that you mentioned either so its not like you can't get a good dog out of it, genetics is sometimes luck, and I'm guessing we both won this time around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
577 Posts
pet lines are what happens when Sally meets David at the dog park and admire each others dogs -- and agree that the world needs to share their happiness . So arrangements are made to have the dogs "get together" .
Sometimes there is an inverse sense of the dogs being superior because there is no inbreeding (how do they know) and that because they are out of the loop they are less prone for breed problems .
There is no attempt at standards of any sort.
^^^THIS EXACTLY^^^

I know not every single puppy is going to be the "pick of the litter" when it comes to a properly done showline paring by a responsible breeder either. But when its done properly, most, if not all of those puppies will still be up to a much much higher standard than dogs that are coming from 'Sally and David'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,452 Posts
There should be no such thing as pet lines,(my mother would smack me for the preceding words grammatically...haha), good pets can come out of any litter or breeding.....but it is irresponsible (oops) to breed "lines" of pet quality.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,150 Posts
I don't think there are "pet lines" probably a BYB special. Basically, if someone advertised as such, I'd be steering clear!

There are good dogs from good breeders suited to pet HOMES. Either don't quite have the conformation for showing, or maybe lower drives for WL's. I have one of these. She's WL, but had lower drives (ha!) than her littermates. I have no idea how the people with the higher drive puppies are doing it, she's a handful! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
287 Posts
Call me thick for asking this but do all gsd skeletons look the same , just to me not all GSD do ,are legs bones shorter etc............ I know this question sounds stupid lol but is it ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,005 Posts
I consider pet lines those with generations of puppy mill, neighbors sorta GS dog, cousins dog, no knowledge for generations, no health testings, no training, trialing, no concern for the standard or even awareness of the standard. The only criteria is erect ears and black and tan, Show lines are carefully bred with much attention paid to pedigrees, health testings done, shown to other GS fanciers, judges, some training and trialing and competing. The breeder can talk at length about the standard and deviations from it. I can tell at a glance usually if the animal is well bred with care and planning, and most people can with a bit of training, and effort
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,005 Posts
Call me thick for asking this but do all gsd skeletons look the same , just to me not all GSD do ,are legs bones shorter etc............ I know this question sounds stupid lol but is it ?
There's wide variations in all breeds of dogs. There's conformation standards and when people don't follow those standards, that is, when they breed their dogs willy-nilly without regards to those standards, you get variations from those standards.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top