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So I want to show Sonar, but not sure where? There are tons of AKC conformation shows around us, I would like to enter one and just see what happens. But not only is Sonar working lines he is also considered a coated dog. What are my options? Would we be dq if I entered an AKC all breeds show because of his coat? Thoughts and suggestions please. :D

Photos deleted due to overly large size. MOD Andaka
 

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I have a LC that I have shown UKC and she's done well, but I showed her when she was out of coat. Although, on top of that, she's not much of a coat anyhow. She's one of the inbetween coats.

Why not show this guy in SV shows? They should start having LC classes at most of the shows soon.

I'm not sure about AKC. I think it depends on the judge. LC is not a DQ, but it's considered a fault ... so, some judges may see it as grounds for not placing and other judges may see it as a minor fault and still place if the dog is great in all other areas.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Do I have to register him with the UKC to show him in a UKC show? He is AKC registered.

He is somewhat in between also IMO.

Do I just look for SV conformation shows? How would I find one in my area? Is this through Schutzhund?

Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks for the advice :)
 

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To be in UKC shows you need UKC registration. However if there's a show coming up that you want to enter, you can get a Temporary Listing (TL) number which gives you 60 days (I think?) to process a UKC registration and have the points transfer over.

To be in SV type shows in the USA you have two options: GSDCA-WDA or USCA. Generally to be in these shows you need AKC registration, an official 4-generation pedigree from the AKC, and a tattoo/microchip verification form. Your dog must be tattoo'd or chipped. Depending on the age of the dog and the show (club, regional, national) there may be additional requirements. How old is your dog and are you a member of WDA or USCA?
 

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How tall/long is Sonar, suzzyq1? In the second picture, he looks ultra compact. Maybe it's just the camera perspective?
 

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It must be hard to judge a coaty in movement. The second shot looks like he has a rounded back and that could just be the coat bouncing. He's a beauty.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
To be in UKC shows you need UKC registration. However if there's a show coming up that you want to enter, you can get a Temporary Listing (TL) number which gives you 60 days (I think?) to process a UKC registration and have the points transfer over.

To be in SV type shows in the USA you have two options: GSDCA-WDA or USCA. Generally to be in these shows you need AKC registration, an official 4-generation pedigree from the AKC, and a tattoo/microchip verification form. Your dog must be tattoo'd or chipped. Depending on the age of the dog and the show (club, regional, national) there may be additional requirements. How old is your dog and are you a member of WDA or USCA?
Sonar is 18 months old (19 months on Oct 1), He has his AKC reg paperwork and 5 generations, he is also micro chipped.

I am not currently a member of an association. Do you recommend one over another? I will definitely get the registration paperwork from UKC and see what I need to do for that and get the ball rolling. Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
How tall/long is Sonar, suzzyq1? In the second picture, he looks ultra compact. Maybe it's just the camera perspective?
I think the last time I measured it was around 26" I will retake another measurement tonight as that was a few months ago. He is a big boy, huge head and paws. He is still very lean though.
 

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This is what you need for the UKC (I would also include photos of him from the front and from each side, they've started asking for these now):
United Kennel Club: Single Registration

WDA vs. USCA usually depends on your location and which has more shows. The nice thing is that you can attend WDA shows even if you are not a member, you just cannot enter national level events without being a member (not sure if this is also true for USCA). I am a member of USCA right now and am attending a WDA show next weekend. If your dog is older than 12 months then you need to send his 4-gen AKC pedigree (it must be the official/certified 4-generation pedigree, not any other types) either to the WDA or USCA along with their microchip verification form. This is a form you bring to your vet to sign and verify their chip. WDA and USCA each have their own on their website (note: if you get one done, I would just have the vet do both in case you join or show with the other organization later on):
http://germanshepherddog.com/members/USA Tattoo Verification Form.pdf
http://www.gsdca-wda.org/forms/VETERINARIAN VERIFICATION OF Tattoo-Microchip.pdf

Keep in mind that when the dog turns 24 months old if he does not have a working title (SchH or HGH) he can only be shown in the "open" (24 months untitled) class and this class is not always offered, nor do the ratings count towards a breed survey if that is your goal later on.

Hope that helps!
 

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I think the last time I measured it was around 26" I will retake another measurement tonight as that was a few months ago. He is a big boy, huge head and paws. He is still very lean though.
Wow! That's crazy. It's probably just me, but the photos make him seem so small! I really though he looked about the size of a border collie in that pic. Odd. I agree though, he's a great looking dog!

[BTW- you need to go into photobucket and resize those images to 800 x 600 before a mod deletes them...]
 

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Discussion Starter #11
This is what you need for the UKC (I would also include photos of him from the front and from each side, they've started asking for these now):
United Kennel Club: Single Registration

WDA vs. USCA usually depends on your location and which has more shows. The nice thing is that you can attend WDA shows even if you are not a member, you just cannot enter national level events without being a member (not sure if this is also true for USCA). I am a member of USCA right now and am attending a WDA show next weekend. If your dog is older than 12 months then you need to send his 4-gen AKC pedigree (it must be the official/certified 4-generation pedigree, not any other types) either to the WDA or USCA along with their microchip verification form. This is a form you bring to your vet to sign and verify their chip. WDA and USCA each have their own on their website (note: if you get one done, I would just have the vet do both in case you join or show with the other organization later on):
http://germanshepherddog.com/members/USA Tattoo Verification Form.pdf
http://www.gsdca-wda.org/forms/VETERINARIAN VERIFICATION OF Tattoo-Microchip.pdf

Keep in mind that when the dog turns 24 months old if he does not have a working title (SchH or HGH) he can only be shown in the "open" (24 months untitled) class and this class is not always offered, nor do the ratings count towards a breed survey if that is your goal later on.

Hope that helps!
What is an HGH? I was going to try for his BH very soon (Feb/Mar) Would that be ok? We are tracking, would a tracking tittle be ok? What about AKC tittles? I was going to trial him in TD for AKC first, then do Schutzhund (since AKC is a little less strict) I don't want to throw too much training at him all at once, right now we are tracking and working on competition obedience. We are training ScH tracking style. Kristiaan De Sweemer was/is our teacher.

Tell me your opinion.....should I just shoot for ScH tracking and not trial until I am ready for that? (maybe not until this time next year??) or trial him in AKC tracking and see how we do in Mar/Apr? I need more time in each day, or a clone haha

This is all so new. Thanks for all your help.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Wow! That's crazy. It's probably just me, but the photos make him seem so small! I really though he looked about the size of a border collie in that pic. Odd. I agree though, he's a great looking dog!

[BTW- you need to go into photobucket and resize those images to 800 x 600 before a mod deletes them...]
It's not in photobucket it's on his blog page. I will have to resize them. oops.

He's a big boy. I will have to get a photo of my Siberian next to him. He dwarfs my Sibe, who is above the height for his breed standard at 24 1/2" and 67lbs for a male.

Thank you, he is a handsome boy. :wub:
 

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I don't show, but I was at my first trial/show a few weeks ago and got to talking with one of our club members that has championed more than a few dogs. You're going to have issues in the AKC ring, some judges might just disqualify you, others won't place you. The coat is probably not the biggest problem, its that it will be very hard to see faults in your dog through the coat. He is also a sable, which doesn't help. According to this guy, having a black shepherd in a show is tough because it is so much easier to see the faults on an all black dog.

I wish you luck in showing, we have a few white shepherds training in conformation at our club, and they are automatically disqualified from AKC events. You have a beautiful dog, but you're going to have a hard time placing, much less winning. Its such a clear "fault" that I don't know many judges that would put your dog infront of a standard coat.
 

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HGH is the German herding title (dog works 300+ sheep). It must be SchH or HGH. The BH does not count because it is not really a "title". They do not recognize AKC titles or anything other than HGH or SchH1-3. Neither of the dogs in my sig with all the titles are currently eligible for WDA or USA shows other than the open class. I am not that familiar with AKC tracking but if you plan to do both, I would always train for the more strict. For example I like to do Rally and Schutzhund but I train all my obedience in Schutzhund because it is *way* more precise and stylized than Rally. Same for SDA protection vs. SchH protection. I would do the foundation training with the more precise, more difficult in mind otherwise you may be training habits that will be difficult or impossible to break if you plan to move to a different style. If SchH style footstep tracking is acceptable for AKC titles then I would train for SchH tracking.

With UKC you don't need any titles, just the registration. And age does not matter besides putting you in the right class if your dog is not yet Champion. I think it breaks down like this: 6-12 months, 12-24 months, 24+ months, Champions, Grand Champions.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
That's really silly IMO because it's not like for example a Collie or Sheltie isn't considered a "coated" dog but they have the same type of coat as a "coated" German Shepherd. Longer fur, more difficult to see the body and they show in the ring without issues. It's not really "fair" that a coated dog isn't treated the same and a stock coat dog.

It's really discouraging to hear. I did want to show him but it seems like tittling him in tracking and obedience is more of the way to go. I'm not wasting my time or money to do that. I don't want to go to a show and not even place (not that it matters) because he has a coat. The thing that really gets me is he's no a true LC, he is stuck somewhere in between a plush and a coated dog. :wild:

Thank you for your help :hug:
 

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Why not do UKC? Where I show GSDs aren't that popular in the ring. It's not as easy to finish a championship but you get lots of points and ribbons!
 

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Beautiful, what an awesome looking boy.
 

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not sure how many ukc shows there are in this neck of the woods:(

I would find yourself some "matches" and hit as many as possible, good for training , not as 'strict'..just to get your feet wet..At matches, you can do the conformation, the obedience and anything else they offer..much more laid back fun type training.

Lots of akc events in New England, they are usually listed on the AKC site.
 

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I don't show, but I was at my first trial/show a few weeks ago and got to talking with one of our club members that has championed more than a few dogs. You're going to have issues in the AKC ring, some judges might just disqualify you, others won't place you. The coat is probably not the biggest problem, its that it will be very hard to see faults in your dog through the coat. He is also a sable, which doesn't help. According to this guy, having a black shepherd in a show is tough because it is so much easier to see the faults on an all black dog.
A long coat is not a DQ in AKC, so the judge cannot DQ the dog for that. Biting the judge is a DQ offense, but not being a coat.

It's not that it's hard to see faults through a coat...you can see faults just as easily in a coatie as you can in a standard coated dog if you know what you're looking at. It's that when there is ONE coat in a ring of standard coats, the standard coats are what's going to win. A coatie needs to be exceptional to be put up, and while Sonar is nice, there are too many things that an AKC judge is not going to like, and will not forgive.

we have a few white shepherds training in conformation at our club, and they are automatically disqualified from AKC events
No they're not. They're disqualified from conformation, not performance.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Why not do UKC? Where I show GSDs aren't that popular in the ring. It's not as easy to finish a championship but you get lots of points and ribbons!
I would love to, not sure how many events will be out my way. I will have to research it and find out. I do just want to have fun but I don't want to stress that I'm going to get ridiculed or not place and get DQ in the ring bc I have a working line, sable, coated GSD. With AKC that would happen (from my understanding), If I can do it with UKC I am in. Just need to do some research and see what is available in the New England area.
 
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