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I don't think it is a bad deal to receive one pup IF the breeder does the x-rays (and only proceeds if results are good) , contributes to an increase in nutrition, takes the female 2 to 3 weeks earlier for her to settle in to the change of location , whelps the litter , bears all costs incurred including C-section or other, raises the pups , socializes the pups , vets the pups, sells all the pups outside of the one the owner of the female selects and which ever one or two she may hold back, all others placed at the breeders expense - advertising etc. , and the breeder then continues to maintain contact giving advice and support to the new owners for the life of the dog, honoring any guarantees for hips , taking back animals that are returned for a variety of reasons and keep the pups as long as needed until an honestly suitable person comes along. This is a long term project.

The one thing though is not to expect a mini-me . The pup may be the offspring but may be nothing like your female.
 

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Before I bred my male (non-GSD) I asked myself if I would be willing to take back any pup from the pups' owners if needed, no questions asked. I knew for 100% sure that I would stand behind every pup that resulted from these breedings. Actually I did take one back, trained and re-homed that pup.
No matter if you are the owner of either the stud or dam, you are always responsible for his/her offspring as it is because of your decision to put these puppies into the world.
PS: this is not meant to be defensive or accusing anyone who decides to breed their dog.

A little while ago I got a request to breed WD to a nice female but I declined. He hasn't been X rayed (and neither was the female) or proven in any other way than by me being completely in awe with him but I know it is so biased.
So I sent this person to WD's breeder. My next pup doesn't come from WD but from these same lines. I know WD's breeder produces these great dogs so why would I mess with this?
 

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I don't think it is a bad deal to receive one pup IF the breeder does the x-rays (and only proceeds if results are good) , contributes to an increase in nutrition, takes the female 2 to 3 weeks earlier for her to settle in to the change of location , whelps the litter , bears all costs incurred including C-section or other, raises the pups , socializes the pups , vets the pups, sells all the pups outside of the one the owner of the female selects and which ever one or two she may hold back, all others placed at the breeders expense - advertising etc. , and the breeder then continues to maintain contact giving advice and support to the new owners for the life of the dog, honoring any guarantees for hips , taking back animals that are returned for a variety of reasons and keep the pups as long as needed until an honestly suitable person comes along. This is a long term project.

The one thing though is not to expect a mini-me . The pup may be the offspring but may be nothing like your female.
Financially speaking, if it's a normal sized litter, no it's not a bad "deal", but I guess I still feel that I am responsible for any dog *I* own. Even if someone else says they're covering X, Y, and Z medical expenses.....I guess I'm just not one that would "lease" out a dog like that. With my breeding male, I cover his expenses for initial consultation with the repro specialist, making sure he's viable, brucellosis tests between breedings. I don't pass those costs on as part of the stud fee or factor them into the stud fee, those are just my responsibility as the owner of the dog and being responsible for his health. So if I had a female and the breeder said they would "cover everything", I would still not agree unless I had enough $$$ set aside to cover emergency C-section or treating any number of complications during pregnancy in case the breeder could not hold up their part of the agreement. Not saying it's not done...that's just how I feel about it. I can't not feel completely responsible for a dog that is so important to me.
 

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Financially speaking, if it's a normal sized litter, no it's not a bad "deal", but I guess I still feel that I am responsible for any dog *I* own. Even if someone else says they're covering X, Y, and Z medical expenses.....I guess I'm just not one that would "lease" out a dog like that. With my breeding male, I cover his expenses for initial consultation with the repro specialist, making sure he's viable, brucellosis tests between breedings. I don't pass those costs on as part of the stud fee or factor them into the stud fee, those are just my responsibility as the owner of the dog and being responsible for his health. So if I had a female and the breeder said they would "cover everything", I would still not agree unless I had enough $$$ set aside to cover emergency C-section or treating any number of complications during pregnancy in case the breeder could not hold up their part of the agreement. Not saying it's not done...that's just how I feel about it. I can't not feel completely responsible for a dog that is so important to me.
So, you don't charge for a stud fee? Where are you located? I love your dog. Free papa! (Just kidding)

A good stud fee can cost $800 to $1000. I expect that the owner of the stud is using that money to cover the cost of keeping him healthy and covering anything to do with trialing, health testing, etc. When that is all behind you, then the stud fee has a higher profit margin. Else how do you calculate the stud fee? Three breedings at approximately 60 minutes per breeding x $100/hour, your stud fee = $300? That the stud fee of one dog completely covers the costs of keeping a stud by a factor of two or more, doesn't concern me at all. It covers the costs of other potential stud dogs that washed for whatever reason.

As for the question at hand, I could not send my bitch off to the stud dog's owner and then leave her there to whelp and raise a litter. My dogs know me, I am their comfort person. So when she is going through the most harrowing experience of her life to date, I want to be there. But that is just me. Having an experience whelper might be easier on the dog than having a distraught owner, pacing back and forth wondering whether or not they should call the vet.
 

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No, Sue for the litter I had been waiting for I did not charge a fee. I did a lot of extra testing up front (some I wanted, some the bitch's owner asked for and I agreed and paid for), did not charge a stud fee, the owner of the female could only fit in one breeding and it did not take. My stud fee right now is well under the price you are quoting and no breedings are planned. I would not take the expense I put into our initial breeding and now charge a higher fee. I don't breed to cover costs, I would do it if I liked the bitch and wanted a puppy. Trialing, health testing, keeping my dog healthy and fit...none of that is ever "behind me". I do not just title dogs so I can breed them and charge a fee for puppies or a stud fee. I'd have to charge the fee you are quoting and breed my dog weekly to even attempt to recoup the cost I've already put into him, lol, and we train almost every day and compete almost every weekend. I do not see dogs as a source of income or an investment and I don't use breeding as a way to recoup costs. I pay to own, train, and trial my dogs because we enjoy it. Two of my three dogs are altered mixes, lol.
 

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Alot of people only want the top 5% to ever be bred, that is never going to happen though. I think if your dog is in the top 20% then the dog will pass on genetics which improve the breed. You should do the health tests of course, its gonna be more expensive to breed your dog than to buy a puppy. What makes you think your girl is special? Shes kinda washed out colorwise so breeding to a dark sable could improve that from what I hear.
 

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She is beautiful! I'm sure she would have gorgeous puppies but that's a personal decision between you and your breeder.
 

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very very pretty, can't answer your question, but wanted to say how pretty she is:)
 

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Discussion Starter #34
What makes Emma so special - well from my perspective (not a breeder, I do not show her, have no intentions of displaying her as the "best" in her breed, etc): back story, I was extremely frightened by GSD but in 2008 I fell in love with her brother, who was purchased by a dear friend of ours. We contacted breeder but all we bought from that litter. I spent days and days researching the breeder, calling past clients, really looking into them as we never ever spent that much money on a pup before. Actually, I've never had a purebred before Emma. Received a call that someone returned her because of a family situation and she was available for us to meet and possibly buy if we passed the background qualifications n so forth.
We enrolled and participated in a 9 month training school with Emma, together as a family. We opted not to lease train her, although she is amazing on a lease, we never did the click system but always understood direction without hesitation, even with our children. We did crate train to potty train her and it took 3 months and to date (5 yrs) she has never had an accident.
We followed the "touch her everywhere" while she eats, as well as during stressful times and therefore there is not any spot on her body that is a no zone.
As for nipping, I read that while pups are with their mom they teach their young about biting, pressure and no through different yelping sounds. I started this right away, and when I noticed Emma nipping, or as a puppy it hurt we would yelp and she would stop immediately. She still does to this day. We don't have to raise our tone, change our voices - it is like she understands the words when we speak.
Loves other dogs, motherly to some, submissive to others. Doesn't bark while out in the car. Goes to and from the school bus to get the girls and we didn't teach her this.
While at the vets they can do anything to her, she doesn't get stressed or react. Never has to be muzzled.
Now, she does have quirks - when Husband isn't home she will not let MALE strangers near the porch. Emma has always bitten the front door, LOL - I don't know why. She hates it when our girls swim in the pool and will pace around it and bite down into the water; we have tried to encourage her to get in as we have a concrete inground pool but she won't - this is the only place she can't get to the girls. Um, those are her only issues, LOL - she is beyond a gem!
Emma is a text book GSD. She is beautiful, her soul is truly the special part of her. We have been blessed.


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Discussion Starter #35
The special post was to answer Volcano. Also, forgot to mention: we were very fortunate in that while raising Emma from a pup and even now, she was never left alone. So there was no long periods of time where she was left by herself, especially during her first 2 years. This may or may not have made a huge impact on her awesome temperament and well being. Additionally, when I typed "lease" I meant leash. We were, and still are, very hands on with Emma. I give her full body massages 5 days a week, not just for her relaxation and enjoyment, but it seems like ticks are trying to take over the country LOL! We need better meds because these nasty pest are building up an immunity!


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it seems like ticks are trying to take over the country LOL! We need better meds because these nasty pest are building up an immunity
Instead of meds, try Springtime Bug Off Garlic. Though there is a window of time when you begin treatment that it isn't effective...about 2-3 weeks loading dose and then it starts repelling ticks, mosquitos and fleas.
This year, I decided to use the bug-off and so far I haven't found a tick on a dog. I've found them on me or in the house but never attached or even on one of my dogs. It works!
I'm against pesticides and try to do natural preventatives if possible. Bug Off Garlic for Dogs | Natural Flea and Tick Repellent | Springtime, Inc.
 

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She is pretty and looks like she has a great temperament. The "silver" color, however, is actually a fault. Technically speaking, "silver" is not a color in and of itself, it's actually just a pale, washed-out tan with little to no pigment. The breed standard states that this is undesirable, so I wonder why your breeder would want to carry it forward. I wonder if there are white dogs in her pedigree?

Of course, all things considered, color and pigment is not as much of a concern as health and temperament. But GSDs are not an endangered species, we have a slew of them, and ethical concerns dictate that we breed only the best of the best of those... surely there are excellent bitches available that have correct temperament, outstanding health, AND good pigment. Perhaps it sounds snobbish to those outside the "dog world", but the true GSD enthusiast wants it all, the whole package, and there's really no reason why it should be any other way.

If your breeder is actually a breeder of White GSDs, then I can see why she might want to breed a black & silver. Breeders of Whites actually want as little tan pigment as possible in their dogs to produce a true white coat without any cream, tan or red shades coming through.
 

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Yes, please post her pedigree. I'm curious and trying to learn about them ;-)
 
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