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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
here is the deal Stella will be now 16 weeks old this Thursday, and we heard the story of a longhair GSD almost 1y old which hasn't been sold and time is running out at his breeders place, we were just wondering if it was a good idea to get him. He has not been trained or housbroken, lives outside with his brother, so there would be training as well as Stella which is coming along in a great way. She hasn't had her first heat well at that age no wonder but wouldn't there be a major concern getting a male dog which isn't fixed either in the house.
I kinda love the idea of getting him, just wonder in how much trouble I would get myself with a young male? So any answers or exp. would be most welcome. I included some pics of the dog which we would call Brutus if we are getting him home.:confused:
 

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Brutus is lovely. I am sure the romantic notion of adding Brutus sounds fun. Two gorgeous GSDs playing in the lovely green grass....

Now, reality check..training two crazy, silly dogs and finding time for both would be tough.

I think it would be very difficult to give each one a fair time allotment of training and socialization, unless you have someone else dedicated to help.

You might get resentfull of the time they take and Stella will be missing all of her one on one. Better to space dogs two years apart. (Just like babies..human,,that is!)

But, oh boy...he is lovely!!
 

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I agree with ponyfarm.

And... Why is time running out for him? Why has the breeder done absolutely nothing with him (sounds like they just shunned him to live outside for his entire life)? What's the full story on this dog?

I hope he's being taken care of because to me, it doesn't really sound like it. But if that's the case... Maybe that would be a good reason to actually get him.
 

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I agree with ponyfarm.

And... Why is time running out for him? Why has the breeder done absolutely nothing with him (sounds like they just shunned him to live outside for his entire life)? What's the full story on this dog?

I hope he's being taken care of because to me, it doesn't really sound like it. But if that's the case... Maybe that would be a good reason to actually get him.
well he and his brother are fed and then have the run of the property, the are living in outdoor kennels, they don't get any training so that the people which will get them can put their own mark on the dogs. The problem was when this litter was produced there was no calling for Longhair GSD so they got left behind, and couldn't be sold.
We know from a friend that he doen't keep the dogs for ever around seeing that they cost money to feed etc. she didn't wanted to ask him what will happen to them if he can't sell them because she is afraid of the answer, which makes me believe that nothing good would come of it.
We have an appointment to see both dogs on the 20th of this month, and yes I do have no romantic notion of Stella and Brutus just being happy go lucky on the green grass. I will not be alone in this enterprise my sister lives with me, I just wondered if anybody had exp. with more than one dog so close in age?
 

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I wouldn't do it. Not a good idea....one untrained dog and a 16 week old puppy? Disaster. They'll focus on each other....take time away from you training each one.

If he was, say, a completely trained 2 year old I would say perhaps.

The breeder is also giving the biggest line of BS saying that they are not training the dogs so the new owner can put their stamp on them? In other words--we're too lazy to train them.
 

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Did not mean to offend with the 'romantic notion", except thats is how I tend to operate! :) Just have to watch myself!

My sister has two 2 year old intact male labs. From the same litter. Yep! She also has four other rescues of various ages.

Her husband and her both own a horse training/rehab facility and were able to be with the dogs 24/7. They did lots of one on one. She would take one with her, and he would take one. Then for obedience and conformation classes..my sis would take one and my Mom the other. Both dogs go to shows ..she usually has to take someone with her to help..of course the trainer/handler is there as well.

The dogs are very well socialized and trained. Tons of fun...yea they do tend to male-dog fight some. Not too bad. They also love.love to play together.

So , its very do-able. Takes a plan and determination. ONe note..have a place to keep them separate at first. Just till they prove they get along.

I think Brutus is very cool and sounds like you have a plan. Good luck.
 

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Unfortunately, once a puppy reaches about 16 weeks old and has not had any "human" work done with him as in socialization, training, exposure to outside stimulas, but just running wild, it has been proven that the dog will not ever really bond with a new family, they just don't understand family, instead they understand bonding with dogs.
Will probably not make a good pet at all, plus the chance of dominance over your puppy, food, etc when you try to make him a family member might get the puppy hurt.
Sounds like the breeder is not a good breeder at all, when I had puppies that did not sell those were the exact puppies I spent more time with taking in the house, house breaking, obedience training, car rides, anything to make the older puppy a good pet. I suspect something is not right here, alot of folks LOVE older puppies, young adults because they don't have to deal with the puppy woes. So, this dog has no training, is an established adult with his own agenda and nobody wants to take on an adult with absolutely no training.
I would pass if I was you.
 

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I would advise against it. My mother has a 6 year old collie who although he is housebroken, every once in a while forgets that fact. He also tends to ignore commands. When I brought Freyja home I devoted my full time and energy into training her. I have to say, when the puppy is around a semi-untrained dog it is twice as hard to train the puppy. When she was with Angus, my fiance's GSD she picked up commands much faster because she could follow in his footsteps.
 

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Unfortunately, once a puppy reaches about 16 weeks old and has not had any "human" work done with him as in socialization, training, exposure to outside stimulas, but just running wild, it has been proven that the dog will not ever really bond with a new family, they just don't understand family, instead they understand bonding with dogs.
Really? I am not trying to be a wise___, but what do you mean by "proven"? So there is no hope for a bond with this dog?
 

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The puppy brain is most inclined to accept new experiences between 4 and 12 weeks of age. Missing the window after 14 weeks of age can socially handicap the pup

People often insist that the new dog they adopt must come to them in puppyhood in order to bond with the family. The confusion over this idea comes from a study, often borne out by real-life experience, that puppies who do not have any human handling at all during a critical socialization period will grow up with poor socialization skills or sometimes no ability to bond with a human.

Here is a link to explanations why a dog not given the human contact during the critical development periods will hinder the dog for life.
Critical Periods in Your Puppy's Life | Beagle Pictures, Information & Forum | Beagles Unlimited
 

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So to answer your question about no hope of a bond with this dog? I would say not really, not the kind of bond to people like a person would want. A rehomed dog that has lived with another family,or a retired show dog or a dog that has been turned over to find a new home due to a family move or whatever, that dog will take time to adjust to a new life, but will adjust because it more than likely had a family home situation that included travel, play time, vet trips, everyday normal things.
This dog has not had any type of normal life if he is as described, no real interaction except to run with his brother, be fed, et. He doesnt know a family life, how to respect a human.
Its like the Pryenees, Akbash,the type of breeders who sell their dogs as guardians to sheep, llamas, etc. Those puppies are put with the animals they will protect as young as 8 weeks, right after weaning and they are left with them. They are only handled if necessary, fed and watered, but they live with their animal pack. They do not have human socialization, they are raised to be one with the animals they guard. We have lots of those that come into vet for rabies vaccinations or injuries, they do not even know what humans are. They are basically there in a "trance" like state, we do what we have to do, then send them home. No cages, no human interaction at all. They were raised that way for a purpose.
A dog that has been raised like this male is pretty much like these working guardians: he knows dogs, he knows to run with his brother and he knows humans give food, that is it.
I really think you are making a big mistake to bring this male into your home, especially with a 16 weeks old puppy you are making a part of your family. Don't let your heartstrings tug because the breeder is making you feel guilty for what he/she has not done for this dog. Now he/she is trying to dump the dog on a soft hearted person to take over. Unless you are willing to let this dog live out his life in your backyard, you are not going to have much else than that.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks all for the advice and last night my sister and I made the decission not to take Brutus home, all what we have read and talked about made a lot of sense, which doesn't mean that we will ever give up the idea of owning 2 dogs, but I need to be fair to Stella and let her grow up first a bit, anyhow you guys all helped a lot so thanks
 

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You have made a good choice. alot of folks own two dogs, but do it slowly and once your sweet puppy grows up and bit, then think about bringing home another dog that has the correct socialization and temperament, then instead of being trouble and stress, it will work out much better.
 
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