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Serious Question & Debate about when to admit that you are just not getting through

When is enough, enough.
When do you give up trying and take it a step forward and admit that you are not going to get through and that maybe it's the best to either release the dog from his demons?
Would you either have him put down or try to get him into different hands? Could you live if something happened with the next person?

Is it okay to put a dog down because of aggression issues and knowing that even you love that dog you couldn't live if something happened in the new home?

So many people say "You have to try." and will shun you if you openly talk about putting a dog down and make it seem that you are just not good enough or that you don't try hard enough but when is enough, enough?

When another dog gets killed or severely injured? When the dog actually attacked a human being? Even if you have the dog under control there can always be the point when everything gets out of control... and is it a good life for a dog to keep him contained at all times just to keep him alive?

I am wondering about these things for quite some time...
 

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Sometimes I do think that there is nothing that can be done for aggression. However, these cases are extremely rare. But I don't doubt that they exist. Sometimes it really is best for the dog to be euthanized.

Honestly, how great is a truly aggressive dog's quality of life? I think it is best to put those dogs out of their misery. Because they are miserable.

To answer your question - I think the time would be when the dog's quality of life and wellbeing is suffering because of his/her aggression.
 

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Very sorry for your dilemma. Try rehoming the dog. I'm sure you will let the next owner know about the situation and make sure (as you can) that the next owner is qualified to handle him. Also, get a signed waiver of any liability to you. If you can't do that then put him down before he hurts someone. Not too sure how miserable he is but just think how miserable you would be if he caused misery to someone else.
 

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Very sorry for your dilemma. Try rehoming the dog. I'm sure you will let the next owner know about the situation and make sure (as you can) that the next owner is qualified to handle him. Also, get a signed waiver of any liability to you. If you can't do that then put him down before he hurts someone. Not too sure how miserable he is but just think how miserable you would be if he caused misery to someone else.
Urm, I am not talking specifically about one of my dogs.
Well, I sort of am but it's my bitch, as always and sometimes I am doubting myself if it is the right choice to keep trying.She is very borderline so I am thinking about these things but to be honest, I could not re-home a dog knowingly, even if the new owners know about her issues. I could not do it knowing that something could happen. I couldn't have them sign the liability paper either. I could still not live with the guilt if ever something happened with a dog that I re-homed, knowing what kind of issues it has which is why the reason I have still my bitch and I'll keep her.

We did come a long way but I still have to watch closely and sometimes I wished I wouldn't have to watch closely.
 

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When is enough, enough.
When do you give up trying and take it a step forward and admit that you are not going to get through and that maybe it's the best to either release the dog from his demons?
Would you either have him put down or try to get him into different hands? Could you live if something happened with the next person?

Is it okay to put a dog down because of aggression issues and knowing that even you love that dog you couldn't live if something happened in the new home?

So many people say "You have to try." and will shun you if you openly talk about putting a dog down and make it seem that you are just not good enough or that you don't try hard enough but when is enough, enough?

When another dog gets killed or severely injured? When the dog actually attacked a human being? Even if you have the dog under control there can always be the point when everything gets out of control... and is it a good life for a dog to keep him contained at all times just to keep him alive?

I am wondering about these things for quite some time...
sometimes dogs, like humans, have mental issues that truly need addressing - much like post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) soldiers - there are dogs that have it too, like Lava Dog as an example that was rescue dog from Iraq war and he has gone through a lot of rehabilitation....but still has some issues the Lt. Col deals with him on.

Amazon.com: From Baghdad to America: Life Lessons from a Dog Named Lava (9781602392649): Jay Kopelman: Books

If medication doesn't work and even training doesn't help then maybe it is the environment and a new handler might be better equipped to deal with the dog and the personal or mental issues. Maybe the dog just needs one owner and no other dogs or pets around and in time the dog will come around. Maybe the dog needs a job where he can be aggressive or looks forward to getting to nab someone - Like a guard dog at a warehouse?

It is not an easy answer and I would not judge any decision a person would need to make in that situation.
 

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To answer your question - I think the time would be when the dog's quality of life and wellbeing is suffering because of his/her aggression.
In a nut shell, this ^.

However, if my life and the lives of household members (of any species) were suffering because of said dog then I would also say enough is enough. If I could no longer maintain a quality of life because of constantly managing the dog then keeping the dog is not doing anyone any favors.

This is of course individualized to different lifestyles. Obviously someone who takes pleasure in having guests a lot or taking their dogs everywhere may not to be able to manage a truly aggressive dog and maitain quality of life for themself or the dog as well as someone who is a homebody with few or no guests.

I would never rehome a truly aggressive dog unless I was positive that the person taking the dog were a better trainer and better equipped to manage the dog than I am. And that they truly wanted to deal with the dog. Otherwise, the dog is my responsibility until death.

In the end it is up to you to determine what is best for you and the dog and not anyone else.
 

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I am going through major aggression issues with Victor so I am curious to see how everyone feels about this subject.
 

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I am a firm believer in humane euthanasia for some dogs. For a dog that is truly human aggressive, regardless of what caused the aggression, sometimes the safest option for the dog is to be euthanized. Most situations where that kind of aggression is acceptable/desirable is not much of a life for the dog.

I also saw an extreme case of animal aggression once, where the most humane option was euthanasia. This was a dog that just wouldn't respond to behavior modification/drug therapy/careful containment and was not safe.
Sheilah
 

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Mrs. K....Is this a dog you have, or is this a hypothetical question?

Either way, if I had such a dog and I had worked with it, done everything possible and could not get through, I would not feel comfortable passing the dog onto someone else. Who is to say that person would succeed, where I failed? I could deal better with dog aggression than human aggression. Worst case - I could keep my dog away from other dogs. In fact, I have a dog aggressive dog who is now 13. It really hasn't been a problem. People aggression? Just too big of a risk. I would be by his side, when he was PTS and I would be very sad, but I think it would be the right thing.
 

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Urm, I am not talking specifically about one of my dogs.
Well, I sort of am but it's my bitch, as always and sometimes I am doubting myself if it is the right choice to keep trying.She is very borderline so I am thinking about these things but to be honest, I could not re-home a dog knowingly, even if the new owners know about her issues. I could not do it knowing that something could happen. I couldn't have them sign the liability paper either. I could still not live with the guilt if ever something happened with a dog that I re-homed, knowing what kind of issues it has which is why the reason I have still my bitch and I'll keep her.

We did come a long way but I still have to watch closely and sometimes I wished I wouldn't have to watch closely.

I am in the boat as you. I constantly have to watch Victor. I completely understand what you are saying. I absolutely know I can not re-home Victor. It is not an option for me either. I could not stand it if he hurt someone or if they use him for bait or chain him to be a guard dog.
 

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Sometimes with an aggressive dog, the end result will be euthanasia regardless.
 

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Sorry Mrs. K, I was posted before I saw the answer to my question.

I cannot imagine your bitch being in more capable hands than yours. I know how frustrating this must be for you. JMO, but I think you deserve a good quality of life too. If this becomes too much for you, I think putting the girl to sleep would be very reasonable. I know that isn't something you would want to do. None of us would, but you have to think of yourself as well.

Hugs,
Jan
 

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I talked to Abby about the issue and what I forgot is what she has actually gone through in the past 6 weeks.

We made an overseas move, came into a complete new house. Than the German Shorthaired Pointer showed up and she had to put up with that, she had to put up with Audie. We had to move again into a smaller place, had rotate between Rebekahs dogs. Now the puppy and Audie are with us and she is definitely not good with changes. So we have to go back to NILIF and for now the best thing to do is to keep rotating to give her a break.

So right now it's best not to blame her but to blame myself that I have not seen the obvious.
 

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Mrs K, Are we talking about incidents that have brought you to this quandary or are we talking about your fear of dealing with what this female might be capable of doing.

I just ask because I haven't read anything that she has done to put her life on the line or am I missing something.
 

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I don't like change either. I'm sure all the changes have worn on you as well. Hang in there and I hope you see some real improvement soon.
 

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Urm, I am not talking specifically about one of my dogs.
Well, I sort of am but it's my bitch, as always and sometimes I am doubting myself if it is the right choice to keep trying.She is very borderline so I am thinking about these things but to be honest, I could not re-home a dog knowingly, even if the new owners know about her issues. I could not do it knowing that something could happen. I couldn't have them sign the liability paper either. I could still not live with the guilt if ever something happened with a dog that I re-homed, knowing what kind of issues it has which is why the reason I have still my bitch and I'll keep her.

We did come a long way but I still have to watch closely and sometimes I wished I wouldn't have to watch closely.
OK, your OP stated 'him' so I made an assumption. Nevertheless, I sympathize with your frustration and hope you can resolve it.
 

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Mrs K, Are we talking about incidents that have brought you to this quandary or are we talking about your fear of dealing with what this female might be capable of doing.

I just ask because I haven't read anything that she has done to put her life on the line or am I missing something.

Don't worry, her life is not on the line. I am just thinking about the "what if" and worst case scenario.

I know what she is capable off, actually what any dog is capable off. After all they are dogs and every dog, just like humans, have aggression inside them.

It's an ongoing thing ever since she had pyometra and we've dealt with severe aggression issues. It was so bad that a lot of people were scared of her and I was unable to let her even get close to another dog. Even dogs she knew for quite a while.

Meanwhile it has gotten a lot better and I was able to let her get back together with other dogs but in the past week I can see her shifting back into old behavior which is probably more my fault than hers. I did not see the obvious but it can easily be managed. All I have to do is to go back to NILIF and keep rotating to give her a break from all the craziness in this house.

However, the issues I have with her raise questions in my head of what if I had no choice and what would be the right thing to do if it came down to it. It doesn't mean that I want to put her down. I am just wondering how other people would handle it.
 

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When I was growing up, we rescued a lab mix puppy. Yogi was a cute, smart little thing. I was the one that trained the dog and took care of him. As he matured, he became more and more unpredictable to everyone else but my family and our other dog. He became dangerous. His quality of life declined because he was always on a leash, or confined when we weren't around. You always had to be on guard, you always had to be careful.

I was at school one day and he got out and almost killed the neighbor's dog. A one time incident, and that's all it took. It was SO scary. This never improved. We tried literally everything with him. My dad finally decided to put him down. It was the best option for him and our family.
 

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I bet she's just really stressed out right now. Give her a month to get her feet back under her, do the NILIF, make sure she gets plenty of one on one time with you, and I bet you'll have her back under control.

In answer to your hypothetical question in the first post, I have to agree with Konotashi, it's a very personal assessment of the dog's quality of life. If he spends his days in a cage and cannot trusted in 99% of situations, then there is probably something really wrong with him. Something that can't be fixed with behavior modification or medication. I think I would want to be put out of my misery if it were me.

Good luck with Zenzy, she's in very capable hands and if anyone can get her back on track, it's you.
 
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