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Would a dog trained in schutzhund (BH or IPO 1-2) or even a dog in training, be considered a working dog? I always considered schutzhund a sport rather than being a working dog activity.
I suppose the definition depends on what one means by "working".. I consider working dogs to be dogs that are actively "working" on a regular basis, helper dogs, tracking dogs, hunting dogs etc.

Are IPO titles considered "working dog" titles?

Would you call your IPO dog a working dog even though it doesn't work in the traditional "working" sense?
 

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I would say that because of the working ability required, and IPO title would be considered a working title. I also think that while the dog is currently active in the sport he would be considered a working dog. However, once you stop regularly training and competing in the sport, your dog ceases to be a working dog.
 

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I think the term 'working dog' applies to a dog that is actually certified in working and does so professionally on a regular basis.
I don't think a dog training for titles in IPO or other sports are working dogs but dogs doing sports.
A working dog is just that, a dog that is basically treated as an employee and lives a very structured lifestyle with a regimented schedule and routine.

But I know many in sport treat their dogs differently than a companion, so have a different mindset and consider their dog a worker.
I train almost daily but would never consider my dog a 'working' dog, but a companion who enjoys training in the sport I chose to work him in!
 

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There are working dogs that live as pets on their down time. There are also working dogs that train in SchH. There are handlers that use SchH as a foundation for their working dogs. So, yes, in many ways SchH is still work even if we as handlers aren't using these dogs in any official capacity.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
under the sv system isn't ipo/schuts offically designated a working title??
I believe they are called International Utility Dog titles, per IPO rulebook, BH is not considered a utility dog title (well it's not worded as such). So I take Utility to mean Working.

I guess the question is, is the dog (technically) a working dog while training for the title or is it working dog after the title? i.e a BH dog is not classed as a working dog until they reach IPO1?

Everywhere I search IPO, is considered a dog sport. However I guess, like professional athletes, active participation in sport is considered working.

So does, as robk suggests, a dog cease to become a working dog as soon as the dog stops competing in IPO? (assuming the dog is not participating in any other working role).

On a similar note, can a dog be a "working dog" without any official title. Would a farmer that has a dog that performs some sort of working role on the farm, yet has had no official titling, have what is classed a working dog?

I would say yes to the farmers dog, yet I don't feel it appropriate in my case to call my IPO dog in training a working dog.
 

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i agree on the farmers dog scenario - in that theme most real working dogs would be without title or pedigree in a range of venues from LGD, assistance dog, commercial yard dog, dogs finding wounded game for money, professional ratters, pesticide detection, invasive species detection, hunting, those dogs that clear birds from aircraft landing zones, security dog, crowd control.....the nameless, public faceless, paperless, untitled, unpapered dogs who's owners prolly don't know titling systems or seen a pedigree or even know the internet exists.
 

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The most popular working dog in the world is the German Shepherd, the German Shepherd as a working dog was founded on the principles of IPO titling and breeding.

A dog that is proficient in IPO shows that it has qualities required as a utility dog for general work (not necessarily suited for absolutely any job, but certainly a good number of jobs).

We train, title and breed dogs for IPO and Work. Police Dog Handlers come to us to buy dogs, for training and advice. They are open to IPO and see many benefits to it.

I consider them working dogs.
 

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what was first, the GSD or IPO titling?

The most popular working dog in the world is the German Shepherd,

>>>> the German Shepherd as a working dog was founded on the principles of IPO titling and breeding. <<<<

A dog that is proficient in IPO shows that it has qualities required as a utility dog for general work (not necessarily suited for absolutely any job, but certainly a good number of jobs).

We train, title and breed dogs for IPO and Work. Police Dog Handlers come to us to buy dogs, for training and advice. They are open to IPO and see many benefits to it.

I consider them working dogs.
 

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I think the interpretation of what a working dog is can be very individual. I personally don't think of any sports competition titles as 'work', but that's MY interpretation. Schutzhund was developed as a test .. not as the end product for a working dog. 'shrug' again, MY interpretation and I'm sure others don't feel that way .. and they have a right to their opinion. :)
 

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Anyone can define any word any way they wish, however, language is a medium of communication so there is general social agreement on the meaning of terms so understanding between disparate people can occur.

SchH or IPO is by common agreement called working titles because they were originally devised as tests before breeding a dog. A dog that passes the tests presumably has the genetics that can produce puppies that can be worked in the future in different jobs such as police dog, SAR dog, MWD, etc. These aforementioned dogs are considered working dogs because they do have jobs that many people would consider a job. So GSDs in general are also called working dogs because they belong to a breed called a working breed, so named because many dogs from this breed end up working. The specific dog may be a pet but because it is from a working breed it is called a working dog.

Also, when people train for SchH or IPO they commonly say, "I am working my dog." It is akin to saying when you go to the gym that you are "working out" even when you are not doing a job.

Nowadays of course, SchH can become a sport where people do not necessarily use it as a breed test but to score more points than other people and get trophies for it. However, due to its origin as a breed test for a working dog breed, people still refer to it as a working title and to training in it as working a dog.
 

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I would say that because of the working ability required, and IPO title would be considered a working title. I also think that while the dog is currently active in the sport he would be considered a working dog. However, once you stop regularly training and competing in the sport, your dog ceases to be a working dog.
Not necessarily. Some organizations (SAR, Therapy dog) do not allow a dog that has ever trained in Schutzhund/IPO.

You don't want a dog searching for a person and then doing a bark and hold on him.
 

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Not necessarily. Some organizations (SAR, Therapy dog) do not allow a dog that has ever trained in Schutzhund/IPO.

You don't want a dog searching for a person and then doing a bark and hold on him.

A dog, properly worked in Schutzhund, will never hold&bark at a subject. However, the IRO uses a "hold&bark" on subjects at a certain distance, as indication.

A German Shepherd is a "Gebrauchshund" which is a Utility/Working Dog. They should always be bred as a working dog and the IPO is a working title.

@Vislor: I absolutely agree with you. I believe there is a difference with Europeans viewing the German Shepherd as what it is and in the US.
 

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I think the term 'working dog' applies to a dog that is actually certified in working and does so professionally on a regular basis.

...

I train almost daily but would never consider my dog a 'working' dog, but a companion who enjoys training in the sport I chose to work him in!
I agree completely with this. I feel that the term 'working dog' is completely subjective and has no rules for application. Even though I work Pimg in agility, even though we train often, even though we compete as often as I can financially afford- I do not call her a working dog. To me, a working dog is one who is worked day or night, rain or shine, who actually goes out and does a job as a "professional" on a daily basis. For me- SAR, "real" herding dogs (like- farm dogs), and police dogs are what I'd apply the term "working dog" to. Those who just train in a sport of choice, regardless of how often they train, are not working dogs in my book. They are just dogs who get worked regularly.
 

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Disaster only uses a Bark indication. At least in FEMA. Can't speak for other countries.

All of my SAR dogs, wilderness and FEMA have done a bark indication.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
 

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I dont think that schh dogs are working dogs, but I think that ipo titles are "working" titles if that makes sense.......
 

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Meaning is dependent on context.

Example one: you have a pet GSD, your friend has a pet Chihuahua. It's understandable when you refer to your GSD as a working dog because it is a member of a working dog breed, your friend's dog does not.

Example two: you have a GSD with a schutzhund title or is "working" toward a title; your friend has a pet GSD. It is understandable to refer to your GSD as a working dog and your friend's GSD as a pet dog.

Example three: you have a GSD with a schutzhund title or is "working" toward a title; your friend has a police dog. It is understandable to refer to your dog as a sports dog and your friend's dog as a working dog.
 
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