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Hello, got my GSD from official breeders.... And when they had they first and only offspring so far... This came out:
2 fair sables
3 blacks
3 black and tan or similar (because one was a little greyish where the tan should have been)

Please check my pics, since I don´t know how to upload them in this post!!:help:

Of course i´m positive about my male being the father, since I saw them when they got stuck and no other dog broke in.

Sorry about my english, I´m from Argentina!
 

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There is another thread going on, that read that unless you have one sable parent there is no possibility that 2 black/tans can produce a sable.. Litters can have multiple sires, so maybe she was bred by another and the litter has a couple of sires?

Cute puppies tho
 

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Thanks for your reply, but no, it cannot be possible, I live in the middle of nothing, no more dogs around here.... and my house is all closed.... I read something about pattern sables? Could my bitch be one? she´s got a weird back, the black is mixed with some bi color hairs (black root with a cream color tip). I heard some sables have that characteristic, even if they look sometimes like a regular black and tan?
 

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can you post a link to the album...I can't find it....

one HAS to be a patterned sable or the litter has more than one sire...only way you got sable or black pups

Lee
 

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well the pedigrees you provided are WGSL's , black and red/tan -- the pictures of the sire and dam you provided are both black and tan , so by colour genetics you have no possibility of sable because that is a dominant gene meaning either one of the parents must BE sable . Be sable , not just have it somewhere in the background.

Either you are assessing the puppies incorrectly or you did have a visitor .

You can always send DNA for a colour gene check .
VetGen: Veterinary Genetic Services - Canine - List of Services - Coat Color

to remove all question on sire have a paternity test done on the strangely coloured pups http://www.vetdnacenter.com/canine.html (which apparently has expanded its services to colour testing )

You can't identify the sire IF it is indeed a different dog than you expect , but you can rule out that your stud is not the sire , exclude him from paternity , if that is the case.

post a picture of the pups if you can.
 

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no patterned sable -- plus her pedigree doesn't support her being sable.

you either have a different "extra" sire or have fawn coloured pups - which are not sable .

you may have a double dilute gene , two copies of blue which is possible with your pedigrees and ALL show lines as they are inbred on Canto Wienerau who produced blue.
It is not a question of quality , but colour genetics , and recessive genes for those colours.

you're going to have to explain this to potential pet homes for these dogs , best to get the paternity settled with DNA .

they are not "rare" and worth more , nor worth less.
 

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The bitch is definitely a black/red with a very pronounced bitch stripe.

I'm not sure if this will work on a patterned sable...but I'm fairly certain if you pull some of her guard hairs, and see how many colors are in each hair, it will give you a much better idea of what she is. Sables tend to (I think 100% of them) have multiple colors on each or most strands of hair. So if I pull a hair from my male...it will go brown/black/brown on it. Black/tans I believe tend to have hairs of all one color. So...if you pull your bitch's black hair, it will be all black, and if you pull one of the lighter hairs on her back, it will be all tan/red whatever her color is.

The lighter color pups do seem sable, but I think Carmen is right...they're fawns. Just don't have a pronounced saddle yet and might not ever have one.
 

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Fawn may explain the sables but what about the solid blacks? I've never seen a solid black from two WGSL. I've seen like one or two blue and reds, but nothing else, ever.
 

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She had to have been covered by an additional male. It is very possible to have a litter be born that had 2 sires. Is there a sable male around? But the female would have to carry a black recessive - which is really really rare in a Euro show line dog....look more closely at the solid black pups.....is there a brown spot around their anus? If so, they are not solid black genetically.

I agree with Carmen - get the male and the sable and black pups tested for DNA...if there is another male in the household or nearby, and he is sable then I would DNA test him as well.

Lee
 
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