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I have a question I'm not too sure about and it might be a dumb one but here it goes. I know the basics when it comes to genetics I know that a (Heterozygous sable) has two gen colors and a (Homozygous sable) has only the sable gen therefor it can only produce sable pups. My question is can my heterozygous and my homozygous sable make (Black sable pups)? or do black sables have there own gen makeup or is it the roll of the dice getting black sables any information would be helpful. Thank you
 

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I am not 100% but I think the "black" sables actually carry the black gene as well - at least the ones I have known are that way...........it has not been that important to me since there are so many other things
 

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Some may argue with me on this but I don't think there is really a such a thing as a true Black Sable. If you think about it what makes a sable is a tan/gray banding. A true black sable would have black banding therefore the dog would actually look solid black.
 

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Probably a ton of opinions, but..... I have come to believe "black sable" is just a descriptor for a very, very, dark sable. So the genetics would be the same as a "regular" sable.
Do most very, very dark sables carry a black recessive?
Seem to. But not all.
 

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As far as the color locus goes, sable is sable. Whether it is a "black sable", "red sable", "light sable", "dark sable", etc... is determined by other genetic modifiers that any individual sable may or may not have. The same goes for black & tan... some have a lot of black, some are mostly tan with only a little black. Their color is black & tan but other genes determine the extension of the black pigment, hue of the tan pigment, and so on. And then more genes yet determine if there is white ticking (bitch stripe), white spotting, etc....

Could 2 sables produce "black sable".. theoretically yes but if neither is a "black sable" itself it is very unlikely. True black sables are very rare. Most called that are really just dark sables.

And of course there are many, far more important factors that need to go into whether 2 dogs should be bred together than what colors may be produced.
 

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Do most very, very dark sables carry a black recessive?
Seem to. But not all.
Every black sable I've known carries black recessive. But there aren't many black sables out there so that only amounts to a handful of dogs and certainly doesn't mean that they all do.

I think that is more coincidence than anything else though since a lot of sables carry black recessive and they are not black sables. I own 5 such sables right now, all with black recessive, and while they range from medium to dark not a one would be considered a black sable. Come to think of it I think every sable I've ever owned, had black recessive, and none were black sables. I've known many, many other sables with black recessive that were just "regular" sables as well.
 

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Well that is true that I have known some very very dark sable dogs who carry the black recessive but not I am not sure what a "black" sable is if they are so rare.

Come to think of it though. Beau is a very dark patterned sable who looks like a black/tan in most light, but I gather he does not carry black because it would be either saddle - or - black from his mother?

Father was sable x black, mother was black and tan x black [which lines up with phenotype of their parents and with litter offspring which were black, blanket black and sable (Beau)

So that would support saying you can have a very dark sable without the black gene
 
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