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Here are some self stacks of my dog Ruger. I am sorry about the links, every time I try to upload a picture to this site my computer freezes up.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/534151_10151357652731905_1778456768_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/10086_10151357652871905_330729934_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/531941_10151357652946905_1287761223_n.jpg

I would like to show him but am unsure how his top line will affect him. I hope to get at least a G rating. What do you think?
 

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He is a very handsome dog.
But I would not show him.
His body is shallow and lacks masculinity.
He needs more 'substance'.
He has a long croup and a short tail.
Every GSD isn't a show dog. (Mine isn't)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
He is a very handsome dog.
But I would not show him.
His body is shallow and lacks masculinity.
He needs more 'substance'.
Every GSD isn't a show dog. (Mine isn't)
Thanks. He has always been very lean. I am just hoping for a G so I can have him koreclassed.
 

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I could be wrong, I've been wrong before.
I hope you get more critiques that prove me wrong.
Its ok. I appreciate your comments. It helps me look at things I haven't thought about before. I agree that his body is shallow. I really hope it is just because he is young, however, I do see younger dogs with much thicker bodies so you may be right there. I am not sure about the croup and tail though. I have always liked his croup and tail. He is kind of holding his tail up in the photos because he is watching activities off camera. My biggest concern and criticism of him has always been his slight roached back causing an exposed t-11 dip.
 

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I would show him for a G or SG. The angle of the photos is off so I can't really critique. I see what you mean about the topline, but look at some of the horrible "broken" toplines of the show line dogs....really what is worse? If everything else checks out (teeth, testicles, overall size) and he doesn't have any major faults I would definitely show this dog in order to breed survey. Assuming he moves OK, with some strategic grooming and if presented well I bet you can survey him.
 

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His tail isn't short. It reaches his hock. And the croup SHOULD be long.

I think he could get a low SG or a decent G rating. I'd show him to breed survey as well.
 

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Posted by qbchottu directed to me in the thread titled "Arched Back?";
robk: you are being a little more severe on your boy than you should be. The pictures are really not doing him any justice - I only used the last pic as it is the nearest to correct. He is only 2 and will continue to fill out and mature. He has a nice dark mask, dark eyes, good pigment, nice color. He has moderate bone, and could use more substance. Could use a little more masculinity, but he is still maturing. Are you hiking or swimming? A month or so beforehand, hike him uphill as much as you can and up his food to build up his chest, forehand, and rear.

He is splaying out a little in front so make sure he gets stacked with his feet in. You must groom his topline before the show - let me know when and where you plan to show him, if I am there, I will groom him - if not, I will find someone and we will ask them to groom him beforehand. Take an undercoat rake with single row and remove some of the body in the hair of the withers - must use some spray and moderate out that dip from his withers to back. It occurs in a lot of working dogs - is that tuft of hair at the base of his neck thick? Thinning it out and grooming properly can showcase his topline better.

Looks to have a nice firm back, but his croup is short, flat, and high - tailset also high. Pretty nice angulation in the rear, needs more front angulation, upper arm needs to be a little longer, shoulder will likely be a little restricted (not sure, need to see him move - might also be a little loose in the rear because of all that angulation so make sure to hike him uphill lots and have him pull for you as you call him). His rear angulation will be a lot for his front to handle so practice some if you can - some of these working dogs with lot of drive will push into the ground and it makes them look down in front even worse. Train to get his head up and looking for you so we can help his withers and front look the best we can. Good expression and nice dog. Congrats!

Get him used to checking teeth and testicles - with show training, a good handler, conditioning, and grooming - he could try for a SG.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Posted by qbchottu directed to me in the thread titled "Arched Back?";
robk: you are being a little more severe on your boy than you should be. The pictures are really not doing him any justice - I only used the last pic as it is the nearest to correct. He is only 2 and will continue to fill out and mature. He has a nice dark mask, dark eyes, good pigment, nice color. He has moderate bone, and could use more substance. Could use a little more masculinity, but he is still maturing. Are you hiking or swimming? A month or so beforehand, hike him uphill as much as you can and up his food to build up his chest, forehand, and rear.

He is splaying out a little in front so make sure he gets stacked with his feet in. You must groom his topline before the show - let me know when and where you plan to show him, if I am there, I will groom him - if not, I will find someone and we will ask them to groom him beforehand. Take an undercoat rake with single row and remove some of the body in the hair of the withers - must use some spray and moderate out that dip from his withers to back. It occurs in a lot of working dogs - is that tuft of hair at the base of his neck thick? Thinning it out and grooming properly can showcase his topline better.

Looks to have a nice firm back, but his croup is short, flat, and high - tailset also high. Pretty nice angulation in the rear, needs more front angulation, upper arm needs to be a little longer, shoulder will likely be a little restricted (not sure, need to see him move - might also be a little loose in the rear because of all that angulation so make sure to hike him uphill lots and have him pull for you as you call him). His rear angulation will be a lot for his front to handle so practice some if you can - some of these working dogs with lot of drive will push into the ground and it makes them look down in front even worse. Train to get his head up and looking for you so we can help his withers and front look the best we can. Good expression and nice dog. Congrats!

Get him used to checking teeth and testicles - with show training, a good handler, conditioning, and grooming - he could try for a SG.
The hair on his withers is normal length and thickness. It is just always raised when he is looking at something or even mildly interested in what is going on around him. Every picture I have of him shows the hair on his withers raised.

I think I am going to give him a little more time to fill out before I attempt to go for his show rating. qbchotta, what part of the country are you in?
 

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Man, too bad a dog with that conformation wouldn't be considered a fine show dog. He's gorgeous. And what matters FAR more than a bunch of dogs prancing in a circle is that he is healthy, true to breed, and has a sound body. Ruger looks GREAT, he looks to have a very sound body, and looks as though he could easily do what he was bred for, and that's all that should really matter. These frog-dogs who are winning shows and setting the standard for every other GSD.. Really? I think a dog like Ruger would do better working in the field from sunup to sundown than one of those dogs any day.

A little off topic, but are there any groups dedicated to working GSD conformation shows? I know with other breeds, like The American Pit Bull Terrier, you have the UKC for the show dogs, who are usually not good for much else, and then the real APBT's show at the ADBA - most of the time. That would be awesome for GSDs, there is such a huge difference between the average show GSD and the working GSD these days it's really not fair to even bring a sturdy good-looking specimen like Ruger to an average GSD show with the showlines, it's like two different breeds.
 

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Here are some self stacks of my dog Ruger. I am sorry about the links, every time I try to upload a picture to this site my computer freezes up.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/534151_10151357652731905_1778456768_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/10086_10151357652871905_330729934_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/531941_10151357652946905_1287761223_n.jpg

I would like to show him but am unsure how his top line will affect him. I hope to get at least a G rating. What do you think?
When considering showing a dog it helps to be more objective by reviewing the standard and comparing your dog to the standard and noting in how
many aspects s/he matches it ... or doesn't.
JMHO
SV - FCI GSD Breed Standard
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Man, too bad a dog with that conformation wouldn't be considered a fine show dog. He's gorgeous. And what matters FAR more than a bunch of dogs prancing in a circle is that he is healthy, true to breed, and has a sound body. Ruger looks GREAT, he looks to have a very sound body, and looks as though he could easily do what he was bred for, and that's all that should really matter. These frog-dogs who are winning shows and setting the standard for every other GSD.. Really? I think a dog like Ruger would do better working in the field from sunup to sundown than one of those dogs any day.

A little off topic, but are there any groups dedicated to working GSD conformation shows? I know with other breeds, like The American Pit Bull Terrier, you have the UKC for the show dogs, who are usually not good for much else, and then the real APBT's show at the ADBA - most of the time. That would be awesome for GSDs, there is such a huge difference between the average show GSD and the working GSD these days it's really not fair to even bring a sturdy good-looking specimen like Ruger to an average GSD show with the showlines, it's like two different breeds.

Thanks for your compliments. He definately would not do well at all in an American Show Line event because he has a different body type. I don't expect him to really do well in an SV show either but he must be shown to at least a G level as one criteria to qualify to be breed surveyed. Here is a great video that discribes what I am talking about;

 

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A little off topic, but are there any groups dedicated to working GSD conformation shows? I know with other breeds, like The American Pit Bull Terrier, you have the UKC for the show dogs, who are usually not good for much else, and then the real APBT's show at the ADBA - most of the time. That would be awesome for GSDs, there is such a huge difference between the average show GSD and the working GSD these days it's really not fair to even bring a sturdy good-looking specimen like Ruger to an average GSD show with the showlines, it's like two different breeds.
Yes, UKC and SV (WDA and USCA in the United States). Plenty of working lines show. Last SV show I attended I personally handled 2 working line dogs, stacked a 3rd for a breed survey, and helped with 2 others that someone else ended up handling. This was a very small show too, almost 50/50 WL vs SL. My first GSD was a working line female and she was a UKC Champion with legs towards her Grand and also did an altered show after she was spayed. I showed a younger male WL in SV shows and both times he received SG ratings (highest rating possible for his age). There is no bias against working line dogs; each judge has their own things that they like or don't like. People just need to get out and show their dogs and not make excuses. I don't know where Ruger lives but I would show him myself if he came to a show I'm going to.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Here is a photo that I found of Ruger in a relaxed position showing his croup and tail.
 

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I'm not an expert at critiquing, so I'll leave that to everyone who's already commented on that.

However, I did want to say... he's very very handsome!!
 

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Hi Ruger! Okay, to me the third picture is good for an evaluation. I'll start with the rear- His tailset looks high to me. He looks long in loin which could impact his ability to get underneath himself in movement and really drive. I like his short hocks and turn of stifle. The topline looks off behind the withers- Curious are his hackles raised at something? The outline should be comprised of smooth curves and there is something weird there- not sure if its dead coat, hackles or structural? If you rake out the undercoat or wet the coat (put a wet towel over it) does it still look like that? Try to figure that part out. Nice posternum/forechest. Overall the front looks pretty okay, shoulder might be a bit straight but might be the picture. Strong neck. Good head, earset. His coat looks nice-full. Nice rich strong pigment. Body ratio looks correct. His head looks a bit out of proportion (large...) could be the photo though or maybe he has some filling out to do though. I like more bone and substance, especially in a male.

The best way to find out is to take him to your local club and have people evaluate him- or just enter a show where you pay for the opinion. If this is your first dog to venture into competition with, I highly recommend getting involved with a local club that represents what you want to do...their help and friendship will be invaluable down road. Nothing compares to an in-person eval. And if showing him doesn't work out, the great thing about GSDs is their ability to excel in performance! They love jobs so make sure he has one-great way to bond. Best to you and your boy.
 
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