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Discussion Starter #1
I know this was discussed at some point but I couldn't find it and now I'm tired of searching.


I have mixed emotions on repeat breedings. I have one well known breeder that does it and says you need to for some consistency in the breeding program and another that NEVER does it. If you're breeding to "better the breed" then in theory you should never do a repeat right? You already know what that pairing is going to produce so why do it again? That being said, if you never do repeat litters how can you have consistency in your line? I know pairing similar pedigrees and such but the dogs are still different. It really seems consistency is important in a breeding program. I know when looking at pedigrees even if I don't know the dog I have a general idea of what a dog is like by the kennel it came from. I hope this is making sense, it has been a looong day and I'm exhausted.
 

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I know this was discussed at some point but I couldn't find it and now I'm tired of searching.


I have mixed emotions on repeat breedings. I have one well known breeder that does it and says you need to for some consistency in the breeding program and another that NEVER does it. If you're breeding to "better the breed" then in theory you should never do a repeat right? You already know what that pairing is going to produce so why do it again? That being said, if you never do repeat litters how can you have consistency in your line? I know pairing similar pedigrees and such but the dogs are still different. It really seems consistency is important in a breeding program. I know when looking at pedigrees even if I don't know the dog I have a general idea of what a dog is like by the kennel it came from. I hope this is making sense, it has been a looong day and I'm exhausted.
But what if what they bred last time was doing outstanding, and all of the pups were excelling in what they were doing? I guess the way I see it is if you know that they produce, and what they produce is very good, I wouldn't mind a repeat breeding at all because you KNOW you are producing something fine.

Just my opinion :) I think repeat breeding of a very good pair is more bettering of the breed than a few separate breedings where maybe one of the litters was only 'okay' or 'average'
 

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If you are happy with what you got from a breeding, then I see no problem with repeating it. If you are breeding to better the breed, then it may take a few years for a bitch you hold back to breed to be ready to breed. THAT bitch can then move the line forward. No point in experimenting with lots of different pairings if you find one that works well.

As long as the program is trying to move forward.


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I don't mind it. I bought a dog from a repeat in part because I like what I saw from the previous litter. I don't really care for it if someone is just doing it out of convenience though but I'm not the breeding police. If people buy the puppies I guess they're doing something right!
 

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Berlin is from a repeat breeding. His older siblings are about 18 months old now. Berlin so far has been an amazing little pup and everyone at my schutzhund club thinks he is going to be a great dog. a brother is going to be a therapy dog for autistic children, another sister is working on schutzhund as well. The breeding is going to be repeated next year as well and someone looking for a SARs partner has shown interest.

If you produce very good dogs from a pairing, why NOT repeat it? What exactly is "bettering" the breed? If I have an amazing dog and I knew his siblings were sound and solid dogs, why wouldn't I just want another dog from parents that obviously mix very well?

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Discussion Starter #6
If repeat breedings are okay then why don't all the "top" kennels do it? In every litter they are producing stellar dogs. I think it's because as much as we think we know about breeding, it's still all a learning curve. With every litter you learn more and more about what it is in the pairings that's producing nice litters. If I bred and had a killer litter then I wouldn't do it again. I would take what I knew about that litter and what made it so great and try and improve on it even more.
 

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I think it kind of depends on the size of your operation. If you're a large breeder, have kennel space, can afford to keep back a pup from each litter, it might not be worth your while to repeat breed. Like someone said, you hold back a female and then breed her to something else in order to keep developing/improving your line. But say you only have 3 females, no room for more, you don't believe in placing retired dogs, and the last litter produced was spectacular, why not repeat it? Maybe by then you could hold a puppy back?

I think in theory what you are saying is correct...you produce a great litter, hold one of those females back, title/train, 3 years later breed her to something else to balance out whatever you learned from the last 3 years of breeding. But that's a nice little operation...where as most breeders have maybe 3-4 litters a year, no room for more dogs, what are they supposed to do?

I do however do not like repeat breedings if the breeder owns the bitch and the sire.
 

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I really like repeat breedings. The first breeding gives you an idea of what the following breedings are likely to produce. I am currently looking at a repeat of a very successful breeding by a board member. I have also considered purchasing another pup from a repeat of my own dogs breeding since I like him so much. Successful breedings are often repeated. Just look at N and P litter Del lupo Nero. Also Look at how many times Half Ruhbachtal and Ina gaurd were bred to each other when the N-Litter Heiligenbosch was so successful. If the combination works I think it as a good idea to repeat it.
 

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I really like repeat breedings. The first breeding gives you an idea of what the following breedings are likely to produce. I am currently looking at a repeat of a very successful breeding by a board member. I have also considered purchasing another pup from a repeat of my own dogs breeding since I like him so much. Successful breedings are often repeated. Just look at N and P litter Del lupo Nero. Also Look at how many times Half Ruhbachtal and Ina gaurd were bred to each other when the N-Litter Heiligenbosch was so successful. If the combination works I think it as a good idea to repeat it.
Lol...I'm hoping for a female out of a repeat breeding where the sire is one of the dogs out of the N litter from del lupo Nero.
 

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I like repeat litters, personally. Finn came from a repeat just because the dogs coming from that particular pairing were/are stellar dogs. I feel that, if you are getting top quality dogs from a certain pairing, why not repeat it.
 

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mycobraracr . here is the thread which did tackle repeat breedings http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/266082-what-makes-one-litter-better-than-other.html


You do not need to do repeat breedings to have consistency in a breeding program. Depending on the pedigree a repeat breeding may expose every variable within those genetics . Or depending on the pedigree the repeat breeding could expose the reliability for certain things within those genetics.

Consistency comes from the breeder being very selective and on point . A deliberate goal . Easier to achieve if there is part of the pedigree equation which has been developed and layered for generations , usually through the female , although a particular male can re-appear through generations attached to different , beneficial dam's lines.

Lisa of zu truen handen (spelling?) Lee of Wolfstraum, myself at Carmspack do this . I am sure that Robin of Huerta Hof does this . I know from the American show line segment that Covy Tucker Hill does this.

Repeats , why repeats? Some litters are small. Sometimes you are looking for a particular gender that you want to keep back for a long term plan , and that gender was not available in the first litter. Some times that first combination produced an exceptional result , which is valuable to the breed, the end-user .

Repeats are a mainstay in breeding programs such as guide and service dogs .
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks Carmen! As always I appreciate your input. I know you don't need to repeat litters to have consistency. Like I said, I don't know every dog out there but I know of a lot of kennels. If I'm looking at a pedigree and don't recognize the dog but I do the kennel than I have a general idea of what traits re dog is going to posses.

I have also seen a breeder use a male to get consistency. They kept importing females to breed to him. I found it interesting but it worked. They are now on the third generation of that male and he is still very evident in the progeny. They also kept the females in their program as well. In all the years they have been breeding, I can only count 2 repeats. I don't know anything about those litters so I don't know why they re did them.


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Interesting, that's kind of the opposite of what most of my breeder-friends do - focus on the dam line and breed strong dams to complimentary males for consistency in their lines. The overall looks and phenotype remain consistent as well.
 

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I can see a breeder doing one or two repeat breeding's, but after that, "I" start to wonder what their true goal really is...
 

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I like repeats of very good combinations. If the first litter is good, going for a different pairing has as much a probability of getting a worse litter than a better litter.
Things are extremely subjective so it's very easy for a breeder to believe what they want to believe.
As Carmen said, repeats are more often found in guide and service dog programs. Doesn't that tell you something?
People are looking for something that works, and are not fooling around.
Also, look at the breeding for farm animals. Another serious kind of work. Lots of repeats.
Anyway, most of the breeding for farm animals and service dogs in the future will be replaced by cloning.
Also, the breeding for pets will be cloning. It's only the hobbyists that will engage in breeding and will rejoice in nature's unpredictability.
 

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I don't breed enough to do a repeat breeding though I would have loved to have repeated my B litter. My whole program is also built on the foundation of one female through her daughter and now her two daughters. Makes far more sense to have two slightly different lines to build on instead of the exact same line.

When I bred horses we did a number of repeat breedings.
 

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From a purchaser's perspective, I view a repeat breeding of a very good breeding by a good breeder as a positive. From a breed perspective, I think repeat breedings have their place. E.g. B (Bernd, Bodo), D (Dolf), F, and G (Gin) litters vom Lierberg. From an individual breeder perspective, I can see how it may or may not make sense as pointed by Lisa Clark. As with most things, I guess it depends!
 
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