[JakodaCD OA]

I think you've gotten alot of good advice, and just want to add my opinion) Since he has NEVER behaved like this before, it sounds like the pig was stressing him out, (kinda like dangling a carrot in front of a donkey?),,,may becoming a tad possessive over the pig, your daughter got involved, and he reacted.. I'm sure her yelling and running just amped him up more.

I'm certainly not condoning what he did, but I think I can understand it. It also sounds like he does not trust your daughter, and your daughter is leery of him to begin with, and I'm sure he picks up on that.

Growling at you, could have very well been a painful thing for him, if he has a bad back.

I would get rid of the pig, I would be 'on' him 24/7 with your NILIF, and I would closely supervise interaction with him and your daughter.

Good luck

 

[Phay1018]

I haven't seen anyone say it so as someone who has many farm animals and has had pot belly pigs before...THEY ARE NOT HOUSE PETS!!!! I don't care how cute and little the piglet is now, he's going to grow up to be anywhere from 50 to 100 plus pounds. What are you going to do with it then?? You think it can live in the upstairs portion of house 24/7? And that your dog won't have even more issues hearing and smelling the pig in 6-8 months when it's close to full grown??

Sorry, not trying to be rude, but I have seen tons by tons of PBP's admitted to the humane society I work at that were house pets that people don't feed and care for right and are so overweight they can't hardly walk anymore. It's sad. They belong in a barn with proper diet and enviornment for a reason.

 

[Ace952]

I know I'm the lone person in this thread that will say this but I would re-home the dog.

My kid means more to me than anything and to have them bit is all it would take to get rid of the dog. Yes the dog is family but that is your kid. Your home should be a safe enviornemnt for your kid and before she wasn't comfotable with the dog and of course after this, she won't feel safe. At home I want my kid to feel safe and comfortable. The dog biting them disrupts the balance of that and personally I can't have that.

Now it comes to where you force your daughter to work with the dog and she understandably may not want too and shouldn't be forced. Is there really a choice when it comes down to your kid and the dog.

Some will say you caused all of the from the beginning when your daughter started to feel uneasy about the dog then the piglet addition, etc.

I know many talk about dogs protective instincts and all but mine as a parent are just as high and I hate to imagine what I would have done to the dog but I protect my kids first.


You must do what you feel is best for you and your family and I hope you find a solution to it. Just IMHO, my kid and their piece of mind outweight anything and everyone else. I wouldn't force my kid to now try and bond with the dog. You know your kids better than anyone here.

Good luck.

 

[JakodaCD OA]

and no one is going to take a dog that bit a family member, the daugher is 19 years old , not 5 or 6.

If the dog has never before displayed this type of behavior and he's what 6 years old? Something ain't right. He also has back issues, mild epilepsy. Again, not condoning it, but just wanted to add that.

 

[Ace952]

Jakoda...you are right, no one will.

If the daughter says she doesn't feel comfortable in the house with the dog and doesn't want the dog there anymore (don't blame her) do u still keep it?

Who is more important?

Hope it all works out....I'm sure it isn't easy for all involved and hope I never go through it.

 

[AgileGSD]

I haven't seen anyone say it so as someone who has many farm animals and has had pot belly pigs before...THEY ARE NOT HOUSE PETS!!!! I don't care how cute and little the piglet is now, he's going to grow up to be anywhere from 50 to 100 plus pounds. What are you going to do with it then?? You think it can live in the upstairs portion of house 24/7? And that your dog won't have even more issues hearing and smelling the pig in 6-8 months when it's close to full grown??

I know two people who have or have had house pigs and make it work. One had one house pig who lived 14+ years and he will be her first and only. The other has had three now, currently has two. Neither of these people exclusively kept the pigs in the house because it is nearly impossible. They can't be kept caged 24/7 and they are smart enough to escape many indoor caging options anyway (the one who has two actually watched one help the other escape out of an ex-epn). They are extremely destructive because of their natural "rooting" behavior - they will root up carpet, get into cupboards, etc. And when they are full grown and have an accident in the house, it is a huge amount of urine - a bucket and mop accident. Both of these people have outdoor set ups for the pigs and indoor "pig proofed" areas. Steps aren't easy for them as they get bigger and older. A small healthy potbelly big is around 60-75lbs but many grow to be as much as 100-200lbs, which is quite large to keep indoors. Keeping an adult pot belly pig solely upstairs, with no access to the outdoors just isn't reasonable.

Other than size, destructiveness and housetraining issues, aggression beginning at adolescence can be a problem with pet pigs as well. The person I know who has two, her youngest was a rehome because he became aggressive and started biting around a year old. He was quite a challenge for her, an experienced pig owner to deal with at first and she had to use a "pig board" to move him around or risk getting bitten. Most pet pigs are bought on impulse, without research and don't end up working out because people don't have a realistic idea about owning them.

 

[codmaster]

Rosey216,

Sounds like you have gotten a lot of good advice here on the board but i think that it sounds like you could use some on scene professional help so I would strongly advise you to find either a really good trainer used to working with dog aggression or an experienced animal behaviorist asap. I would al;so get rid of the pig no matter what you have to do to acomplish this.

Your dog should not have bit your daughter no matter the provocation short of a physical attack by your daughter on the dog.

If she is willing i do believe that an experienced professional can get them to peacfully co exist and maybe even learn to like and respect each other.

Good luck to you and your dog!

 

[vat]

I also think a private trainer that can come to the home and work with the dog and your daughter may be a big help. I agree you do not want to force your daughter into this but I also think you do not want her going around in life afraid of dogs. I think a good trainer can help her to see how to handle a dog and not be afraid. If you can pull this off I think you will see a change for the better in both of them.

Please do rule out any other medical issues with the dog. Good luck.

 

[selzer]

Jakoda...you are right, no one will.

If the daughter says she doesn't feel comfortable in the house with the dog and doesn't want the dog there anymore (don't blame her) do u still keep it?

Who is more important?

Hope it all works out....I'm sure it isn't easy for all involved and hope I never go through it.

Lets look at the facts if I have them straight:

1. The daughter is nineteen and the dog is six. The sons live in an apartment upstairs.

2. The dog has some health issues and now has a bite history. Rehoming the dog probably means euthanasia.

3. The dog was not having any issues until the piglet joined the family. The dog showed that he was majorly stressed out by the new addition.

Now my theory is that IF the pig situation was dealt with differently, MAYBE there would be no bite here.

So, ACE 952, if you had a dog, did not deal with some issues between the dog and the daughter, new the dog had a siezure condition, brought in a piglet and then did not change the situation when the dog exhibited more signs of stress, and the dog ended up biting, what would you do? Do you euthanize the dog right off, without trying other leadership and management techniques?

Try not to make this a choice between the daughter and the dog. That just manipulates and guilts.

Lastly, the daughter is 19. The kindest thing to do for her at this point is to work through this leadership/management change so that she need not go through life being afraid of dogs.

That book by Jan Fennel, I have it, it is very good.

 

[AgileGSD]

Try not to make this a choice between the daughter and the dog. That just manipulates and guilts.

I tend to agree. We aren't talking about a young child but a young adult. This dog doesn't have much of a shot at being rehomed. He is a middle aged common breed, epileptic, has a disc problem and now a bite record. Any one of those things would make him hard to rehome, let alone all of them combined.


As far as "the dog should have never bitten", go back to where I posted the article on bite thresholds (called something like Dog Bites Are Like Tetris). All dogs can and will bite, given the right (or wrong circumstance). Biting, growling, snarling, snapping, barking are all part of normal dog communication. We as a society expect so much more from our dogs then we do any other companion animals or even ourselves. Generally if a horse kicks or bites or rears, they aren't given a death sentence. A cat can get away with quite a bit of biting, scratching or killing small animals and live to see another day. Could you imagine if humans could never, ever so much as raise their voice at each without being labeled as mentally unstable? If a dog shows any sort of aggression, people think it's abnormal and an indication that this must just be a "bad dog".

This dog is likely under a lot of stress from the medical issues and the pig in the house. It sounds like the pig issue has been buidling a lot of frustration in the dog since the pig moved in. Yes, precautions need to be taken and changes need to be made to ensure the dog isn't pushed over his bite threshold. But he is a middle aged dog who has not previously bitten anyone and lives in a household of adults, I hardly think he deserves a death sentence at this point. He deserves for his humans to "hear" him and act accordingly.

 

[codmaster]

I don't know about your dogs and family, of course, but in my house dog biting is NOT part of normal family dog behavior.

 

[codmaster]

That level of aggression toward a family member seems normal?????

 

[patti]

I'm not an expert, but I think first thing get dog to the vet. He could be in pain. Also, many years ago I had a GSD who had those seizures, and she at times became aggressive to my sons for no reason. Never knew if it was a brain tumor, or what. Just a thought.

 

[selzer]

I think that rage syndrome is a part of epilepsy, but I could be wrong about that. Idiopathic epilepsy they do not know what causes it, but they feel that stress can trigger siezing episodes.

So people with siezure dogs usually want to limit excess stressors like this pig.
His response to the pig whether guarding or aggressive/prey, that would add stress that is unnecessary for this dog.

It sounds like this dog has been given some ground because of his physical issues and epilepsy when it comes to training him, and probably leadership. At this point, they need to take back that ground with non-confrontational leadership techniques, which will make everyone involved easier.

Putting the dog down will solve the problem with THIS dog for the daughter. However, I think that it is not a good example of how people should handle problems, and it will do nothing for her in the long run. Of course forcing her out there with a lead and a prong collar is not what we are suggesting. But making some small changes in leadership that EVERYONE in the family adheres too, could possibly turn the corner for this dog, especially if the pig goes to live on a farm somewhere.

 

[Ace952]

Lets look at the facts if I have them straight:

1. The daughter is nineteen and the dog is six. The sons live in an apartment upstairs.

2. The dog has some health issues and now has a bite history. Rehoming the dog probably means euthanasia.

3. The dog was not having any issues until the piglet joined the family. The dog showed that he was majorly stressed out by the new addition.

Now my theory is that IF the pig situation was dealt with differently, MAYBE there would be no bite here.

So, ACE 952, if you had a dog, did not deal with some issues between the dog and the daughter, new the dog had a siezure condition, brought in a piglet and then did not change the situation when the dog exhibited more signs of stress, and the dog ended up biting, what would you do? Do you euthanize the dog right off, without trying other leadership and management techniques?

Try not to make this a choice between the daughter and the dog. That just manipulates and guilts.

Lastly, the daughter is 19. The kindest thing to do for her at this point is to work through this leadership/management change so that she need not go through life being afraid of dogs.

That book by Jan Fennel, I have it, it is very good.

1. So being that she is older it is ok?

2. Yes that is a possibility. With the number of people on messageboards here and elsewhere I am sure there would be someone willing to take the dog in.

3. Yes the piglet greatly contributed to the situation. How much?? We will never know but it did play a significant amount.

Maybe is the operative word. We will never know. Coulda, shoulda, woulda....

There you go it is the owner that helped contribute to this whole situation. I don't address it b/c the owner has already admitted to it. That is all spoiled milk.

Moving forward, the 1st question is if the daughter is ok with the dog being there.

If she doesn't mind working on her issues with the dog then great and hope it works out.

If she isn't then there should be no question.....dog goes before my kid goes.

If her daughter doesn't want to deal with the dog, are you going to force it on her? This is all about how the daughter feels in the home with the dog and her comfort level plain and simple.


There are some people that blame the daughter for the second bite for running. Come on.... How can you blame someone for running? Dog already bit her so I won't blame her for trying to run. Everyone says what people should do until they are in the situation...then its a WHOLE different ballgame.

 

[Ace952]

I don't know about your dogs and family, of course, but in my house dog biting is NOT part of normal family dog behavior.

I so agree.

I just sympathize more with the human (daughter) and how she feels more than the dog.

 

[Dainerra]

I don't think anyone is saying that it's "OK" because the daughter is older. They are saying that you have a dog that is older, injured, and has a medical condition that probably requires medication. The chances of him finding a home are slim. Your daughter is 19 and (I assume) going to be out on her own soon.

Plus, the reasons behind the bite are entirely preventable with even a LITTLE work on the part of the humans in his life. Train him. Remove the cause of his stress - the pig. Have your daughter work with him. Practice NILIF.

 

[JakodaCD OA]

and no I was not saying that it was "ok" because this wasn't a 5 or 6 year old.

I was saying what Dainerra was saying above^^

Also, I do not think it's OK for a dog to bite a family member HOWEVER, we weren't there, we do not know exactly the what's or why's. And pain, medical issues aren't within the "norm" when it comes to dogs.

I do think this can probably be managed with pro help and more vigilance from the owner.

 

[rosey516]

My daughter does not want to do any kind of training with him, I told her at least feed him and walk him. The strange thing is that Nieko is always grabbing her arm lightly he has been doing that since he was a puppy with everyone.. The trainer said it was controlled biting and as long as he keeps it like that its fine. He did this with everyone when he gets nervous, or excited. I redirected that so now whenever he gets excited or when you come home he grabs the first thing he sees ( shoe, toy, cup, water bottle) and keeps it in his mouth till he is calm. He has been doing that for years, instead of grabbing your arm.. So she said when she was on the couch and he jumped and grabbed her arm, at first she thought he was playing, thats when I heard her scream "he is really biting me" and I saw him holding her arm. It looked like his tooth was stuck. At that point I thought maybe it was an accident and when she lifted her arm his tooth got stuck, She was petrified he is 100 lbs. But what really worried me was I grabbed him and she ran, he just darted after her and grabbed her other arm. Yes, she was screaming then again so was I, but he wouldn't let go, I had to open his mouth myself. Thats when I pulled him to his bed and physically put him in a down cause he just wasnt listening and he was I shouldnt say growling he was answering me back (he is very vocal ) so yes I held him down. At that point I was shaking because he got away once to grab her again I wasnt going to take a second chance. So I really wasnt thinking about his back. But believe me He is so much stronger than me. I certainly didnt hurt him.. So I held him down and my daughters friend was here through all this and I told him take the pig out of here and then I put Nieko in his den.. Went to hospital. I just had Nieko Xrayed 2 weeks ago, and bloodwork. They said nothing changed aside from arthritis.. He has been on rimadyl. Believe me when I tell you I would NEVER do anything to hurt my dog..I am really confused right now. I absolutely will focus on some obedience with him, but she wont. Do you think by her feeding him at least or waking him that it will help? My Gosh I dont know what I would have done without all of you....

 

[DCluver33]

Yes, I believe at least having your daughter feeding him will help their relationship. Have your daughter make him sit for his food and then release him and move away. Walking will help their bond, I wouldn't let your daughter walk him alone at first since he has no respect for your daughter at the moment, but I wouldn't force her to do anything simPly because it won't help the situation but it could make it worse. I would just start with having her feed him.