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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
First of all I want to truly thank everyone for your help and advice. I can see you really understand how I feel.Well I guess I made alot of mistakes, I wish I could do it over.. I have just been so stressed i should have realized when Nieko kept taking everything I gave the pig (toys,blankets etc..) When we got out little Maltese, Bella nieko loved her right away no problem. Obviously the pig will remain with my sons. We do live in the same house, they have thier ownnplace upstairs..when I say I try to tell my daughter tomput him in his place,I mean just to let him know he can not play rough with her, and she shouldnnot let him intimidate her. I would never hurt Nieko, and I am not strong enough. When I say throwing him on his back it meand holding him down until he calms down, and yes with some force. He is over 100 lbs. You never know how you will react until a situation arises. Its my fault I havent been consistant with him for a while, hes been getting away with a lot. But now my daughter is scared and I hope he wont pick that up. I have to say he is a completely differnt dog since the piglet is upstairs. I love Nieko dearly he is my best pal and my shadow, just the thought that I would ever have to give him up makes me sick!
 

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This could have been a redirected sort of aggression too. Nieko has been building up all this frustration (stress) towards something he can't get to (Pig which is also a stressor as a new addition to the house), then the added the stress of being yelled at, trying to be shooed away from what he is obsessing over and the fact that this dog is likely in some pain (disc injury? more stress) and you have a dog who is likely to go over his bite threshold. Your flipping him on his back just added more stress and to be honest, you are lucky he didn't bite you too. Your daughter is smart not to be willing to "punish" your dog like this.

This article can explain a bit more about bite thresholds:
"All dogs, whether they are defined by owners or behavior professionals as “reactive,” “aggressive,” and yes, even “friendly” can and will bite. A service dog or therapy dog can and will bite. The goofiest dog you’ve ever seen can and will bite. The dog that allows young children to climb all over him and pull his ears or tail with seeming aplomb can and will bite.
Bites are usually caused by an accumulation of stressors. Each time a dog is exposed to a stressor, stress hormones are dumped into the brain. These stress hormones are like the puzzle pieces in Tetris. They build up over time. You have to actively reduce the stress (like a Tetris player clearing lines) through management, desensitization, counter conditioning, and general stress reduction techniques. If you are not taking steps to reduce the stress, it begins to accumulate. The dumping of stress hormones into the brain leaves the dog increasingly sensitized to stressors, which replicates the puzzle pieces dropping faster and faster until you eventually reach the threshold. Soon, the dog bites. The game is over.
Stressors vary in individual dogs. One dog may be stressed by loud noises, nail trimming, men with beards, wearing a shock collar, foul weather, and a bad diet. Another dog may not seemingly respond to these factors but is sensitive to visits to the vet’s office, small children, cats, people that smell like beer, dogs walking past the fenced in yard, and people approaching or entering the home. Every dog has stressors (commonly called “triggers”) and a big part of effective behavioral modification strategies is identifying these as accurately and thoroughly as possible, which allows behavior consultants and handlers to focus their efforts most efficiently. Stressors, like Tetris pieces, accumulate over time." How Are Dog Bites Like Tetris?


And these explain why you shouldn't be flipping your dog on his back to "show him who's boss":

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You do need to take action but not in the way that you seem to feel is appropriate (alpha rolling). I would suggest the Ruff Love program for Nieko and that everyone in the family participate in it: Welcome to Dogwise.com

I would also suggest that you will probably need to rehome the pig. Your dog may have too much prey drive to happily live with a prey animal in the house. Also it does seem that the pig played a major roll in Nieko going over his bite threshold. Since the pig is just a baby rehoming should be easier. There are also rescues for pet pigs, just like their are for dogs. That might be your best bet for ensuring the pig finds a happy and appropriate home, since they are often "novelty pets" for people and are extremely difficult pets. This might help you find people in your area who can help you:
Pig Placement Network
 

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Rosey516

I don't have any input to help you with your situation, but I just wanted to say I hope everything works out for you and Nieko with a happy ending.
 

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He lets our little maltese take food from his mouth, he has never been agressive thats why I am in shock.
The maltese is a small dog. I would imagine it acts like a dog so Neiko knows how to respond.

Perhaps Neiko needs some non-dog four legged socialization before a non-dog pet is in the house.

when I say I try to tell my daughter tomput him in his place,I mean just to let him know he can not play rough with her, and she shouldnnot let him intimidate her
She needs to bond with the dog. If she is "putting him in his place" she is setting up an alpha struggle. She should do discipline training with the dog so the dog will see her as a partner that is fun to play with in gentle way and so she will learn how to handle a dog with praise whenever possible.
 

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Unless the piglet has more value than your daughter............get rid of it NOW.

Because the real problem in your house is the RELATIONSHIP between your daughter and your dog. And that needs to be worked on in a positive way so she loses her fear and you dog learns to love and respect her but NOT cause of any alpha rolls that may be coming his way.

Exercise, fun, play, treats.... Have you been able to purchase and follow The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell? GREAT info that will help your entire family.

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GET RID OF THE PIGLET and help your daughter and dog.
 

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I second MRL here! First, your daughter (and the rest of the family) then, the dog that considers your house his only home for the 6 years of his life and then... anything else. Pigs are not weird fat dogs, are a different specie and we cannot expect dogs to develope the same relatuonship with them as they do with other dogs (ex. your maltese, or poodle, I don't rememeber where you named it).

To have the piglet upstairs do not resolves the situation and doesn't help the pig. Best to take action now that Bobo is small, cute and adoptable than later, because sooner or later you will realize that no pig, not even a pet pig, can live forever on a second floor.

VAPP: Potbellied Pig Considerations
 

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When my mother first brought King home, i was so scared of him- but i walked him and did training on my own and it really helped me to understand him, and i completely lost my fear of shepherds, and all dogs. I was always scared of all breeds of dogs, now i work at a boarding kennel and grooming shop. So, if she's comfortable get her to do training with him, or take him for a walk (with you there) so they can build their relationship and learn to trust eachother.
It worked for me, now I have my own girl and have NO fear of any dog at all. It did take 6 yrs for that to happen and for me to be completely confident though. I know nothing about dog bites but if your daughter and dog are going to live together for awhile, they really need to trust eachother.
 

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It sounds to me like there were a lot of things that lead to this--epilepsy, slipped disc (probably pent up energy due to not enough exercise if he has a slipped disc), not controlling play time with your daughter when he was younger...and now a new prey item he wants to be all over.

I don't think there is any reason you can't work him still even though you can't have a collar on him--at least mentally. Harness? Learn to train without using leash/collar corrections? I often train in the backyard without a collar on.

This was probably in the works for awhile...the pig just sent him over the edge. GSD's are prey driven to begin with....then add a lack of exercise and mental stimulation to the mix....add a little lack of respect for a family member or two...and you're asking for trouble.
 

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If your daughter does something stupid like yell at him when he's obsessing over something so strongly again I'm sure he could bite her. And the running away was not a bright idea either.

Train the dog and hope animal control doesn't show up at your door. I don't know what your laws are like for dog bites there.

Also, what do you mean by stating that you've been trying to get your daughter to put him in his place... how do you put him in his place?
Ya know i have read quite a bit on this thread and it seems as if you always have something negative ro rude to say please if you cant say something nice just dont type anything.
 

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Ya know i have read quite a bit on this thread and it seems as if you always have something negative ro rude to say please if you cant say something nice just dont type anything.
I dont see anything wrong with what DJEtzel said. :confused:

She has alot of good info and suggestions.
 

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its not really what she say but how first of all this woman is upset her best 4 legged friend has bit her beloved daughter and is distrought about it and here your blaming the daughter while it may have been a bad idea to yell at the dog when it is obsessing over something there is no need for that. the other posts had enough info to cover what was needed and none of them went so far to basically call the daughter "stupid" granted he didnt say she was stupid but her actions i got it but really not the place for it when mommy is heart broken and worried sick! and i have seen these type of unsensative remarks on many threads.
 

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its not really what she say but how first of all this woman is upset her best 4 legged friend has bit her beloved daughter and is distrought about it and here your blaming the daughter while it may have been a bad idea to yell at the dog when it is obsessing over something there is no need for that. the other posts had enough info to cover what was needed and none of them went so far to basically call the daughter "stupid" granted he didnt say she was stupid but her actions i got it but really not the place for it when mommy is heart broken and worried sick! and i have seen these type of unsensative remarks on many threads.
She calls it like she sees it.

It's her opinion and everyone has the right to say what they want to say. She may have said it in a rude way (your opinion) but she's still allowed to say it.

EXAMPLE: She didn't say "Wow your daughter is an idiot and clearly doesn't know what she's doing." That is a rude and uncalled for comment. I dont think that her remark was offensive at all. :shrug:
 

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I have to agree with LaRen. DJEtzel tends to be very blunt but her intentions are good. If you've been around long enough then you'd know that it's just the way she is.

You have the ability to just ignore it instead of calling her out and hijacking a thread. I, for one, am sick of seeing it all over this board.
 

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I have to agree with LaRen. DJEtzel tends to be very blunt but her intentions are good. If you've been around long enough then you'd know that it's just the way she is.

You have the ability to just ignore it instead of calling her out and hijacking a thread. I, for one, am sick of seeing it all over this board.
Thank you! I agree!

If you've got something to say then say it through PM.
 

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She calls it like she sees it.

It's her opinion and everyone has the right to say what they want to say. She may have said it in a rude way (your opinion) but she's still allowed to say it.

EXAMPLE: She didn't say "Wow your daughter is an idiot and clearly doesn't know what she's doing." That is a rude and uncalled for comment. I dont think that her remark was offensive at all. :shrug:

And I would imagine that people are allowed to call her on it too. :rolleyes:
 

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Why don't we just stick to the topic on hand instead of once again DJ and other posters getting into it? Seems like you all just feed off each other.
 

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rosey516: I am really sorry that this happened, I know it must be very upsetting. Do you have access to a professional trainer in your area that could help you with this?

Michaela
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Hey you all have been such a big help, please dont argue with eachother..The bottom line is when I saw my dog whom I
adore attacking my daughter I just reacted without thinking.I am distraught.. I was watching them together today and I really dont like the way he looks at her..I am still frightened. I will make her walk him with me, I am going to have to start obedience all over.. I dont know how it will work with a harness, but Ill try..I will let her train in the yard with him daily and see what happens. You have all been very helpful, I feel there is some hope now. I lost the last two years with Nieko as my mom had cancer and I was taking care of her, so I blame myself for neglecting him. I have 5 grown children and she is the youngest and the only one he feels dominent over.
 

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I think changing your methods/interactions would benefit the dog. Yelling and rolling/holding a dog on its back can be considered by dogs to be aggressive behavior towards them, and can foster more aggression (retaliation) from the dog. These are not beneficial to training or teaching your dog to live peacefully with other members of the household, instead they may cause more stress and strain on the dog and cause him to become more defensive. Holding a dog down when they are already stressed or aroused can also be very dangerous as a dog in that position is much more likely to bite.
I would recommend finding a professional trainer/behaviorist for your dog.
The "No Free Lunch" protocol might also be helpful, you can read about this here:
No Free Lunch Program - Pit Bull Rescue Central
and
No Free Lunch Dog Training
 
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