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Discussion Starter #1
I have been feeding Brady Pro plan since I got him because my breeder fed him that.
I have read some people aren't fond of pro plan I was wondering why and what should I consider feeding him. I also have a Chocolate lab that eats what Brady gets.
 

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Here is a listing of the Beef and Rice Proplan Adult dry formula:

Beef, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, whole grain corn, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), dried beet pulp, animal digest, calcium phosphate, dried egg product, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, salt, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of Vitamin C), manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.
G-4469

Ingredients are listed by volume so it looks like this food has mostly beef, right? Maybe not!

I don’t know the exact percentages but let’s just say the food has 30% beef. But you could have 20% brewers rice and 15% corn gluten meal and 15% whole grain wheat and 10% whole grain corn. That would mean the ‘grains’ make up 60% of the food!

So what's so bad about grains? First, dogs are carnivores - they are not designed to eat large amounts of grains. They do not have flat teeth for grinding (like cows) and their digestive tracts are very short (unlike cows).

So why do they use grains in dog foods? Because they are cheap fillers and can boost the percentage of protein. BUT - there's alot of speculation on whether or not a dog can get the protein from grains as easily as they can from meat.

Until manufacturers are required to list the PERCENTAGES of ingredients they can get away with misleading lists like this.

They also list "animal fat". WHICH animals? Rendering plants can render everything from household pets to roadkill and produce a product called "animal fat". And what exactly is "animal digest"?? You would be surprised: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_digest
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks I actually use Chicken and Rice
 

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Originally Posted By: littledmcThanks I actually use Chicken and Rice
The Chix and Rice ingredients aren't any better:

Chicken, brewers rice, whole grain wheat, poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), corn bran, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), animal digest, dried egg product, calcium phosphate, salt, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.

It too has "animal" fat and animal digest. As well as "poultry by-product" meal. And quite a bit of corn.

This food is also expensive for the ingredients. For instance on petfood direct it is $45.99 for a big bag. (Which is 37.5lbs)

Where are Canidae for instance has much better ingredients:

Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

And is only $38.69 for a big bag (which is 40lbs) at the same place. So you are geting BETTER ingredents, MORE food, and LESS price. And since the ingredients are better, you feed less too.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
thanks
 

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Just wanted to mention this in case you weren't aware since I failed to mention it to my sister when she switched.
I finally talked my sister into feeding her dog a higher quality food then what she was giving her dog. She was using one of the brands where corn was the main ingredient. Anyway, she switched. All at once. It was not pretty.
If you do switch, switch gradually. I did 3/4 old to 1/4 new for 3-4 days, then 1/2 and 1/2, then 1/4 to 3/4.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
what does everyone suggest I use for B-boy
what is the best food for him he weighs 107 lbs all muscle
 

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"Ingredients are listed by volume so it looks like this food has mostly beef, right? Maybe not!"

this may have already been mentioned, but if the first ingredient is beef, or chicken, or whatever and its not in meal form, the moisture has not been removed. there is a good chance it is not truly the first ingredient. ideally, you'd like to see a named meat in a meal form (canidae is a good example example) as your first ingredient (or at least before any grains or other products are listed).
 

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A lot of propaganda on this thread...

I like Pro Plan and have no problem using it.

It does not contain dead dogs and cats either and is one of the few foods that can actually state that since it was tested by the FDA for dog and cat DNA and none was found.

Bottom line all kibbles have some type of binder in them and cannot be made up of giant quantities of meat since it will not bind. Many wonderful, nutritious diets are made in kibble form.

I talk about some myths on my nutrition site http://www.eastgsd.com/kibblesense

I suggest the original poster check it out as well as the http://www.dogfoodproject.com and http://www.greatdanelady.com

Thousands of breeders around the world use Pro Plan and raise their puppies on it....to constantly insist this is a bad product makes them all appear stupid or insane and they aren't. They just know the results they get on the products are good and they like the results, nothing wrong with that at all.

Cherri
 

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am i wrong in saying a named meat meal is more desirable as the first ingredient? dog food project has passages that seem to support this:

Watch out:
Ingredient lists can be manipulated in various ways to make a product look more attractive than it really is. On the other hand, a plain, honest ingredient list may also make a quality product look worse than one of lesser quality with cleverly formulated ingredients, unless you know what you are looking for.

Food A has the following ingredient list:
Lamb, brewers rice, brown rice, poultry fat, rice flour, beet pulp, rice bran...
Food B has the following ingredient list:
Brown rice, chicken meal, chicken fat, fish meal, flax seed meal...

Even though product A lists lamb as first ingredient, the meat still includes about 75% water. Once the moisture is removed to reach the final percentage of about 10%, the lamb meat will have shrunk to 1/4 of the original amount, while relatively dry ingredients like the different rice components will not change much. Product B lists rice as first ingredient, but since chicken is added in already dehydrated meal form, the amount will not shrink any further. Together with the fish meal the product may contain an equal amount of animal protein and rice and is pretty much guaranteed to contain more meat than product A.

Reversing this technique, let's look at examples:
Food C has the following ingredient list:
Chicken, chicken byproduct meal, brown rice, oatmeal, corn meal, chicken fat...
Food D has the following ingredient list:
Chicken meal, chicken byproducts, brown rice, oatmeal, corn meal, chicken fat...

<u>Product C lists chicken as first ingredient (again, this still includes about 75% water) but the much less desirable chicken byproducts in dehydrated meal form - the finished product will contain much less "real" chicken than byproducts. </u>Product D has chicken meal as first ingredient, and the byproducts as second, which will lose 3/4 of their weight by the time the food reaches its final moisture content. Product D contains a larger amount of better digestible animal protein.



it seems if beef, chicken,etc.. is listed first then a less desirable meal form later (for example, poultry by product meal soon after in the PRO PLAN CHICKEN AND RICE) then there may be more poultry by product than chicken.

...but on the bright side, it does not contain dead dogs and cats
 

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I feed Canidae and am not opposed to meat meals. However, some people do not like foods that are extruded. Others think that Chicken is better than Chicken Meal because they believe chicken meal is made out of gizzards, feet, beaks, and feathers.

There is A LOT of hysteria about dog foods.

I tried Canidae because the ingredients are from America. I continue to use it because ten dogs I am feeding are doing great on it for the most part.

My only problem right now is with my boy, Dubya who does not do extremely well with chicken. I have the lamb and rice for him. But they changed the formula to include, you'll never guess, lamb. Ok, fresh lamb. For some reason Mr. Mushy Poo does not do particularly well with Fresh Lamb!!! However, it has only been a week since I started feeding this stuff, and his stool is no worse than when he gets chicken.

There are a bazillion dogs out there folks. And a bazillion different digestive systems. If you are getting good results and you have no solid proof that the company is no good, I see no reason to switch.
 

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Selzer,
Fresh Lamb is NOT the only change in the Lamb and Rice formula. They also did this: "In addition to brown rice, we have diversified the complex carbohydrates in the formula to include cracked pearl barley, rice bran, peas and millet."

You can read more about the changes here:
Canidae Lamb and Rice shanges.
 

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Thanks, this really bothers me. I did not realize they changed their formula until I had the bags home. One was the old formula and it is now gone. This was a dark brown kibble. When I opened the second bag, it seemed a much lighter color. So I searched the bag and so on the front, "now with fresh lamb."

What bothers me is that the lamb and rice and the chicken and rice formulae are touted as being good for dogs with alergies as they have fewer ingredients and one meat sourc. Now I have a boy that seems sensitive to chicken. So I have been feeding him the lamb. I had heard at one point to steer away from barly and I have. I have never heard anything particularly grusome about peas and millett though.

I am now in the process of lookng for an allergy sensitive lamb and rice kibble that promices to stay the sam for the next 10 years.
 

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Originally Posted By: selzerThanks....

<span style="color: #6600CC">You're welcome. </span>



I am now in the process of lookng for an allergy sensitive lamb and rice kibble that promices to stay the sam for the next 10 years.

<span style="color: #6600CC">Good luck with THAT!!!!! </span>


<span style="color: #6600CC"> Have you tried the Natural Balance Lamb and Rice? I haven't fed it, I just saw it the other day.</span>

Natural Bal L+R.
 

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Originally Posted By: selzer

I am now in the process of lookng for an allergy sensitive lamb and rice kibble that promices to stay the sam for the next 10 years.
Have you taken a look at Blackwood? They go through a very long process before bringing a formula to the public and then rarely change them. Highly digestible, good prices usually if you can get it local and a great company

Blackwood 3000 Lamb and Rice Formula


Cherri
 

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Originally Posted By: EastGSD
Originally Posted By: selzer

I am now in the process of lookng for an allergy sensitive lamb and rice kibble that promices to stay the sam for the next 10 years.
Have you taken a look at Blackwood? They go through a very long process before bringing a formula to the public and then rarely change them. Highly digestible, good prices usually if you can get it local and a great company

Blackwood 3000 Lamb and Rice Formula


Cherri
The Blackwood Lamb and Rice posted has "POULTRY Meal" as the 4th ingredient and it has "POULTRY fat".
 

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I saw that. I am trying to stay away from poultry completely with Dubya. I think the barley, rice flour, millett might be my trouble. Barley because it is right up there in the top.

Natural Balance has had too much trouble with recalls and I pulled Cujo and Pip off of it. I believe it has been packaged by Diamond who has also had too many problems.
 
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