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Discussion Starter #1
I read that if you are seeking a trainer to look for one that does not use choke collars because it is cruel. I am guessing a "chain choke" is the same thing?

The trainer we were interested in say's that typical dogs (i am guessing all dogs) must have a chain choke and 6ft lead.

This place would be ideal because it is 20 minutes closer then another trainer we were considering.

I need some explaining on choke collars while training. Or, chain chokes.
 

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The aren't cruel themselves. I use "choke" or "slip" collars and leads on my adult GSD all the time, but she has manners and walks on a loose leash.

The problem with the chain chokes is when they tighten constantly. They choke off the dog, can damage the trachea, and don't teach anything. Honestly, if you are going to use a choke collar you are better off actually giving the corrections (quick jerk) yourself than letting the collar "self" correct which ends up with the dog pulling harder and learning nothing.

I personally don't use any trainer that "requires" certain equipment. My trainer recommends that everyone come with a regular collar and whatever leash they like, and after seeing the dog she will suggest other tools. Even with that recommendation, I bring Kenya on slip leads and Nikon sometimes on a prong or gentle leader.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the info! I really do not want to have to use a chain choke on Drake.

We would still like to come out to Marshall next Friday and check things out down there. I just need an OK to do so.
Or at least get him in an obedience training, asap.
 

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NO training tool is "evil" or "abusive", unless it is used in a manner that damages your dog, physically or spiritually.

In other words, a choke chain, used correctly and on a dog that responds well to this type of correction, is a great training tool. A choke chain that is used in an abusive manner or on a dog that does not respond well to that type of correction, is going to damage your relationship with the dog, if not the dog's health.

In your situation, I would ask whether you can sit in and observe a class without your dog, and see how you feel about the training. See how the trainer interacts with the dog and how the handlers interact with their dogs. What does the dogs' body language look like? Are they uncomfortable or frightened? Or are they eager to work, hardly noticing any corrections?

What are your other training collar options in this class? Would your trainer let you come in on a flat collar, or a prong, or a harness, or a head halter? What tool would you prefer to use? Do you need a training collar to work on a specific issue, or can you work without a training collar? Those are all questions I'd be asking, both myself, and the trainer I'm considering.
 

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I think you need to find the correction collar your dog responds too. I have a choke, prong and e-collar. The choke will NOT work with the one boxer. She goes to the end and keeps right on trucking. A prong and she is the best dog ever.

I use a prong on Jax because a woman completely freaked her out and she wouldn't respond to the choke. I'm now working on getting her to a flat buckle collar so can go for therapy testing.

They are all tools that need to be used correctly.
 

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Originally Posted By: SchotziThanks for the info! I really do not want to have to use a chain choke on Drake.

We would still like to come out to Marshall next Friday and check things out down there. I just need an OK to do so.
Or at least get him in an obedience training, asap.
Yeah come on down! If it's not for you, I'm sure people can suggest other good trainers in the area. I live in GR so I don't know of the trainers in your area but there are people from Lansing and closer by.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Let me give you an idea of how Drake is on a Leash.

He isn't that bad at all actually. He pulls ahead a bit and wanders off course to the side of the sidewalk where the grass is. Which is always peoples yards. Not good! A poo accident is all I need.

He never chases after things.
 

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just an fyi...a doctor I know has some kind of plastic link collar that works like a prong. My OB instructor just ordered one for another dog that the chain isn't quite enough for but the prong is wayyyy to much for. You could probably find it on the internet
 

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I believe Jax08 is referring to Don Sullivan's Perfect Dog collar. It is a simplified prong collar where the prongs look and act more like teeth and is made of a durable plastic. Go to theperfectdog.com website and see for yourself. It works well if you use it right, just like any other collar but motivational techniques work better if a dog responds to it. Every dog is different as is every instructor, just be careful and make it fun.

TerriJ
 

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Just for your walks I would try a Halti or Gentle Lead.Athena walks the best with her Halti,better then when she has the prong on.It takes some getting use to for them but if you keep trying they'll get use to it.As for the classes I would sit in if you can.Then you can see if this trainer is right for you and Drake.
 

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I will never use a choke chain collar again. Never. Been training GSDs and Chows (my own) and teaching obedience classes/private lessons since 1989 (all breeds) and I have moved past using choking devices to help control my dogs.

Any trainer who insists that you use a particular collar is not a trainer I would recommend.

By the way, I was a vet tech for many years. I've seen trachea damage in dogs that choke chains were used on. I've seen bruising completely around the neck. I've seen staph infections caused by injury to the neck from choke chains. I personally would discourage anyone from using them as a training tool - if you have a dog that's already perfectly trained and who you could walk safely using dental floss, then maybe a choke chain would be appropriate. For training purposes it's a cruel tool to use. The soft tissue damage it does is not visible to most people (the fur covers it) and I think that there's a lot more damage than anyone realizes.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
 

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Quote:I personally don't use any trainer that "requires" certain equipment.
The only equipment I "require" is a normal 6 ft leash. Other then that what ever collar they show up in then I eval the dog and handler from there.
 

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Oh, please. I have never seen any sort of damage from a properly used slip collar. The damage comes from improper use from people letting their dogs drag them with them on or leaving them on all the time and/or tieing them up with them. These collars are not meant to be used as a self correcting collar which is what the general public seems to want it to be.
 

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I have - firsthand - seen injury come from normal, "proper" use of the choke chain. It was my own dog, so I know exactly how the collar was used. I've also done demos with the choke chain around my arm and ended up with a bruise around my entire arm from just ONE pop of the chain.

If you never pop the chain, and the dog never offers to pull on the chain, then yes - it's not going to cause any injury. But why bother with a choke chain if your dog is already that trained, right? People use choke chains so that they can create enough pain to get the dog to respond to them. That's the entire premise of a corrective collar - create pain/discomfort and the dog will avoid behaviors in order to avoid the pain/discomfort.

I'm not against all corrective collars, but the choke chain is one of those that carries a higher risk of injury to the dog - injury that most people never notice because (as I've already said) the area is covered by fur and no one really looks that deeply. But we shaved neck areas on these dogs and the bruising was then readily apparent.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
.. and no, I'm NOT lying .. sheesh ..
 

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I have not and no one else that I know have ever seen any damage from a slip collar and I usually only hear horror stories like this from people that have demonized them. All I have to say is nonsense and more nonsense.
 

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Regardless if you like or dislike choke collars (and I will go on record that I do not use them, one of our trainers likes them) I agree with the previous poster: stay away from any trainer who only allows one type of collar.

We advise to come to class in the collar you currently use. Some come in collars that are not effective, some come in collars way over the top for what is needed and some are just right.

We have samples all types of collars to try after observing the dog for awhile.

Out ultimate goal is to get a dog on a flat collar using good, positive training methods. They just can't start at the same place since dogs are different.

See if this trainer 'suggests' a choke but will allow other types. A martinale might be a good alternative if some type of choke is needed.
 
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