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Discussion Starter #1
I currently have two W German Showlines. The male is 3 months old and his sister from another litter is 11 months old (same parents). The male though a young puppy has agreat personality, shows no fear and is even participating in Schutzhund already.

His sister on the other hand can be some what spastic at times and seems to march to the beat of her own drum. Even for her to make direct eye contact seems to be a real challenge. I have heard that WGS females can be some what of a challenge to deal with, but it is taxing at times. Just wondering if anyone else has seen similar results, as we are considering having her spayed in hopes that it will help from a behavior perspective. Irregardless we planed on doing so, but wanted to wait for a couple more heat cycles (she has had only one) for the hormones to level out.

Please let me know your thoughts -
 

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I have 2 females and a male and mine don't have those type issues. I think it's more specific to your dog than gender. It's sounds to me like she may be fearful. Has she been properly socialized (starting as a young puppy)?
 

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My gut tells me the same, as we did not get her until she was 8 months old. Since we have had her, we have and continue to do everything we can to socialize her properly (I even take her to work with me on some days), but I know the early months are important and shape a great deal of behaviors. It's just that we did not have her during the first 8 months so it's now a tact of how do we address and what can we do now? Even when we took her to Schutzhund one time she barked herself out for four hours.
 

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my Fanta fits that stereotype but I think it still is dog specific.
I feel we socialized the crap out of her but she still sees the eye contact from strangers as a challenge of some sort. I know that after her first heat she mellowed out a lot but its still work in progress.
 

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My Miikka is from West German show lines. Although, I’m not sure I can really help you, as I don’t have another WGSL GSD to compare her to, i.e. she’s the first, and so far only, PB shepherd we’ve ever had. BTW, Miikka is not spayed yet, either.

Miikkie is a REAL sweetheart and incredibly smart, too!! She is a very loving, friendly dog. However, when she wants something, then yes, she can be somewhat taxing. She has figured out what she needs to do to get me or another family member to “cave” to her wants and desires. I know, I know.... :whistle:

I don’t have any trouble, at all, getting her to make eye contact. But sometimes she does act a little spastic! LOL! :D
 

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All the barking at the other dogs is fear based and it doesn't sound like she was socialized at all before you got her. This is a perfect example of what happens when they aren't properly socialized at a young age (I know it's not your fault).

I recommend finding a reputable trainer to work with her/you to get her past her fears. It can be overcome but will take patience, work, and a good trainer.
 

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Hey-
I just wanted to say that from what I saw from your female, I didn't think the barking at other dogs was fear based. Rather, I saw over excited/stimulated and with improper greeting behavior. Her bark just didn't have that lower defensive pitch to it. And in the crate there was probably also an element of barrier frustration.

This can still come from lack of socialization. My feeling on watching her was that she was easily excited by other dogs and just has no idea how to handle her excitement.

If you want to bring her out we can use some neutral dogs and just work on her leanring to be around them to start with.

Your puppy really does look GREAT!! I think he's going to be a lot of fun. :)
 

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Thanks to all for taking the time to respond - its always good to hear things from "outside the box".

JK - Appreciate the offer and think that would be good for her. She has an unreal drive and always engages me to play with her flirt stick and tug, but if were not doing that, she can be distant and have her own agenda - kind of an all or nothing in regards to focus.

Thanks for the kind words in regards to Koenig. Were still working on drive and free healing. I ordered him the tug toys and he goes crazy to get at them. Even the puppy bite sleeve (though he's still way to young for it) he will take a flying leap to get at it on my arm. Appreciate all your work with him.
 

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The easiest dog we've ever had was Dena, a WGSL dog and Keefer's half sister. She was calm and well behaved from an early age, loved people, adored kids, got along great with other dogs, was never a destructive chewer, and did not have a reactive bone in her body. Keefer is, um.....not like that. :) Even closely related dogs in the same lines can vary quite a bit in personality and temperament.
 

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I would NOT spay for any type of behavioral reasons. Neuter? Well, maybe, yes, possibly can make things better.

Spaying a female for behavior might actually make things worse.

Different hormones working and removed in these operations.

There has been a study that showed that dog reactive bitches became MORE reactive after a spay.

As for the lines, I don't know. I find females to be not as quick as males to buddy up with strangers. Heat cycles, coming in, in heat, pregnant, and having unweaned pups can cause girls to act up. It certainly isn't all of them though.

Bitches are very much individuals, some are laid back, others are a little more tempramental at times.
 

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It's in the behavioral upbringing ...

I've been raising 3 of my pups from my litter, one male and one female are mine that I am raising equally affectionate and loving, training and caring, etc... and one (a male) is being fostered for a buyer, equally training but whom I purposely do not cuddle up to and show a lot of extra affection to in order to keep his bond to his owner in tact. She regularly visits and trains and works with him and responds very closely to her. (She'll take him home next month).

He is absolutely less eye contact with me, less bonded, more aloof and a bit more aggressive towards his littermates.

Between the male and female pups they are both great personalities and the female is just a jewel, she doesn't show any of the needy, nerve wracked signs her mother did- who was a weak nerved mess, but due to her environment, not genetics. The female pup is strong willed and determined, easily trainable, very alert and attentive and discerns her points to bark about (just as her brother does) whereas her mother was simply ballistic. The sire is very calm and stable.

They are east DDR/German bloodlines. So I would think it's a socialization issue to overcome too, but it should be doable since you've got her early enough, it's just going to take extra special attention and firmness to overcome it.
 

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I would NOT spay for any type of behavioral reasons. Neuter? Well, maybe, yes, possibly can make things better.

Spaying a female for behavior might actually make things worse.

Different hormones working and removed in these operations.
I agree with this 100%. I know this is true for cats because our cat changed from day to night after we had her spayed. I would think it would hold true for dogs too.

I should clarify – our cat got a lot meaner after she was spayed. We still love her but she can be a stinker sometimes.
 
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