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Discussion Starter #1
Hello Everyone!

So I'm soon to be new GSD owner, but I've been dog owner throughout the years! I did extensive research on different breeders, lineage background, health guarantees, etc., and ultimately decided on a particular breeder with working lines.

The pups come from high working drive lineage, so from the beginning I understood they will have high drives. Based on my preferences, I can ultimately choose from 2 females since both are very similar in their temperament.

Both are very driven and confident, so here is my dilemma (esp. since I have an 8 year old child):

Female 1: dominant over other pups (females/males), rougher with toys
Female 2: VERY vocal

So is the supposed "dominance" in F1 can really be read as one at 7 wks old? Is it just a way she plays in the dog pack? Can she become overly dominant once she's older or even possibly turn into dominant aggressive dog?

In case of F2 - Do you think that if she's so vocal at such a young age, she could be fear aggressive? Or could that and her going back/forth in the kennel be just her way of asking for play time?

Any help is much appreciated! It would be great to hear from owners who's dog expressed similar behaviors as pups and how their personality/behavior developed over time.

Thanks for all you help!
 

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What is the breeder's take on the two pups? Personally, all other thing being equal, I'd go with F2. I have enough bossy girls around here :D.
Seriously, it's kind of hard to say without seeing the pups. What are your plans for the pup? Do you have an experienced outsider that could go with you to evaluate pups? If you're planning on competing in some way, then I'd get the advice of your trainer if at all possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
wait you mean ob and protection training as in personal protection?

or sport schutzhund?


I just really hope you picked the right breeder and have the proper trainer. You are in for one **** of a ride.
Thank you for your concern! Yes, she would go through basic (obedience) training and would like her to be trained in personal protection.

I would also never attempt to train the dog (esp. in protection) myself, but only by professional trainer. :)
 

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What is the breeder's take on the two pups? Personally, all other thing being equal, I'd go with F2. I have enough bossy girls around here :D.
Seriously, it's kind of hard to say without seeing the pups. What are your plans for the pup? Do you have an experienced outsider that could go with you to evaluate pups? If you're planning on competing in some way, then I'd get the advice of your trainer if at all possible.
BOCRON: Do you train for Cooper Creek? I was actually going to call CC tomorrow with that question, since it's "close" by and been considering them for training!

The breeder said both are confident, driven, playful...

I want to have a dog that is great with my 8 y.o. child (safety is my priority), but at the same time easy to train. She'll be put through obedience and protection training for sure and will take it from there (competing might be in the future, but not sure as of yet).

Unfortunately, I can't possibly take anyone experienced with me, because the breeder is out of town. I will be able to spend some time with the pups, so I would appreciate any input as to what to look for...
 

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bocron seems like they have a lot of experience hopefully they can help you out. I hope you make the right choice though. I think her club would be a great choice for you.
 

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My pup Onyx was described as your F1.
In Onyx's case, she turned out to be anxious and because of her dominant behavior tried to rule the world, which increased her anxious tendency. She would act aggressive out of fear and I had to really step up my handling to show her "I had the world under control" so she could relax.
She has a lower threshold than I'd like as well...I would almost assume the vocal F2 has that same low threshold? Personally, I'd rather have a thinker....a pup that watches, then decides to act, or vocalize than just do it because they can and are comforted by that activity.
I did get a higher threshold pup~ my male who I bought because the female couldn't handle any sort of protection training and was too reactive to go on to other sports or even do competitive obedience. A personal protection dog should have a clear balanced head, or it will possibly be a liability.
 

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onyx i have a thinker also


but can onyx do personal protection? Can you male? Just curious Like jacket, hidden sleeves bite suit etc.. I don't mind sport dogs as long as they can easily do pp and willing to go after the man when he drops the jacket and gets out of his pants lol


reactive = sharp? i always considered them the same kinda, my dog is not reactive or sharp which is nice cause i can let my guard down in public.
 

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mdm you said you were thinking of joining the schutzhund club so you do not have your heart set on personal protection? personal protection selection is very hard and usually it is best to get a year old dog already tested for the task and ready to start more advanced training if you really wanted to do that. Or like onyx said it is a HUGe liability to train the wrong dog specially you have a young child in the house who will be bringing over her friends.
 

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NO...Onyx cannot do PP, she lacks confidence.
My male Karlo who is higher threshold and a thinker can. He is balanced in his brain!
Karlo was very even keeled as a pup, not over the top in any thing personality wise but would bark without much provacation. Off switch worked from the get-go.
He wasn't(isn't) whiney like Onyx. Karlo would be having a blast doing hidden sleeve or muzzle fighting. He will go on a suit/sleeve without hesitation.
We train in IPO but he does get some civil work thrown in now and then. Because he is a Czech/WG blend, his Czech side gives him a bit of suspicion(which makes him think) he doesn't just go off willy nilly because he can. I don't really consider his character as a sport dog...he thrives on the real type scenario vs the repetitive game playing.
 

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BOCRON: Do you train for Cooper Creek? I was actually going to call CC tomorrow with that question, since it's "close" by and been considering them for training!
My husband is the TD for Copper Creek, I'm the club president. Send me the pedigree if you have access to it and then give us a call. We may be a bit hard to get tomorrow as we have some private training set up so will be away from the phone. Will be in-kennel most of the day Tuesday.
We generally like to defer to the breeder's input if they are out of town (assuming they have the knowledge base) but will be happy to give you some help from the standpoint of an interested bystander :).
Onyx's take on F1 sounds like a good thing to think about. Many "dominant" pups, especially females, seem to be just as she described when you get down to brass tacks. But we are both basing our assessment of third hand info at the best, so keep that in mind.
 

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Onyx after you out him during bite work can the decoy approach as long as you calm him down now and the decoy doesnt threaten? he wont do a sucker bite will he? lol My bitch is also a czech mix lol I trained her out of any sucker biting she does know the decoy now well. Shes just learning skill. Once i out her though the decoy can approach her usually and shes calm or i can let her go free and shes pretty good.


Onyx was the pure ddr? shes still very beautiful.
 

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Yes, we work on the SDA type scenario...he gets 'agitated' then we have to do a friendly greeting with no bite (his stress release, LOL). Karlo is not a dirty biter...but there are a couple helpers he detests and will push some, I use to be sure I had the line before the sleeve was slipped.

He won't out sometimes when I command him if he's on a new helper, he wants to test them some...we work on this whenever I get him on a new one! He understands what is expected, but does love to see what he can get away with(typical boy!)
My female Onyx, I have no idea her lineage....her ' byb' didn't have all her ducks in a row when she produced the litter(falling out w/ sire and dams owners so papers were never produced). I do believe that her sire is Am pet lines and the mother has some East German. Her color comes from the dam's side as does her white spotting so she probably has more Am Showline in there too.
I wish I had the pedigree just to understand Onyx a bit better!
 

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onyx do you think your male would make a good street police patrol dog? when you were buying him did you say you wanted a serious protection dog? he sounds perfect the way you describe him. U ever thought about psa. You guys are so lucky to have that there lol
 

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#1 could be a dominant dog, or could be a fearful dog. My pup (who is truly dominant) was described by the breeder as "stubborn" and "has to have things his way" also as a "thinker". I've seen all of these in play since the day he arrived. He doesn't bully. He doesn't start fusses. He's more subtle than that. He carries himself as though he's the baddest thing to walk the earth. He expects that no one will make him do anything he doesn't want to do, and will refuse to do things unless you get it through his stubborn head that YOU are the one in charge. The bullies are usually less confident. Vocalizing doesn't say much to me about temperament. Grim is very vocal. Other than him using it to grumble about things he disagrees with, it has nothing to do with 'who' he is. I'd want to know more about their personalities before making this choice. What do they do in certain situations? What are their reactions to new things, places, noises, etc? If the breeder can't give you more info., I'd be wanting to move on to another breeder. :(
 

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No, I wanted to do IPO and have a stable dog I could take anywhere....after Onyx, that was my main concern. Karlo's sire was a retired K9 and his owner put many titles on him. Karlo has his daddy's genes, and his moms sweet snuggle factor.
I wish I was a better handler to showcase his attributes. We don't have a PSA club around here, I would probably go that route if so. I entered K in a protection challenge and he did well as we really didn't train the scenario's as the others we competed against did. Karlo enjoyed it as much as I did!
Here is Andy(Karlo's sire), he really is the perfect GSD!
Andy's Anthology - YouTube
 

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Yes, we work on the SDA type scenario...he gets 'agitated' then we have to do a friendly greeting with no bite (his stress release, LOL). Karlo is not a dirty biter...but there are a couple helpers he detests and will push some, I use to be sure I had the line before the sleeve was slipped.

He won't out sometimes when I command him if he's on a new helper, he wants to test them some...we work on this whenever I get him on a new one! He understands what is expected, but does love to see what he can get away with(typical boy!)
We were just talking about taking cheap shots at the helper last night on our way back from seeing our new house. Looks like our move will be next weekend, so I'm hoping to start training right after Thanksgiving. FINALLY!! :D We'll be working the same type of training... and it's all incredibly exciting for me! We feel this is the best thing for Grim, as does his breeder. I don't see him working in prey drive much. Where most clubs and trainers expect this, it's nice to have found a place where defensive drive is preferred and he can just do his thing. It's my understanding that Czech lines have a genetic civility that works well in this type of training, and it's the same reason they can do LE work and military work so well.
I'm part way through that vid. I LOVE the 'don't threaten my handler' reaction, LOL!!
 
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