Prong Collar

She sounds like a normal and crazy young GSD. And I also love the prong BUT use it when my dog is older and STRONGER. So I need the advantage of the prong to level the field in that way (and usually more like 6 months or older).

For my younger dogs that were also full of crazy ENERGY, what I would have to do is bleed off their energy so they would listen. Young pups have the attention span of a gnat and the vigor and energy of a Tasmanian Devil. So if I can work LONG bouts of real exercise (by the way, I just went on an over 2 mile long hike in the woods with an off leash 8 week old German Shorthair Pointer, who's mom just reported back the puppy wasn't any more quiet than normal when they go back home......). 'Real' exercise is what I can see in my pups. If they are tired, really tired, I should see it. They should nap more, focus more, be so well behaved!!!!

And their attention span increases as well! I'd prefer to use food treats, praise, the clicker while they are still young and supposed to be puppies.

Also I go to puppy classes to get the help from the instructor. See what the other puppy owners are having to deal with, how we are doing in comparison. What we are doing well in and what we need to work on. The general socialization from the car ride, extra time with me, excitement from the class and other puppies, and the learning ALSO help my puppy be better behaved for the rest of the day!

WOW! I guess I should let you all know that the only time I use it is for potty breaks when she's being unruly. I put it on, take her out, she does her business, we go in, collar comes off.

I do NOT use it to discipline her, 5-10 minutes tops, and then it is off. She acts normal otherwise.

I am doing focus training, she will be in a class in two weeks, in the house she plays, lets me handle her ears, feet, teeth, tail etc...and is a normal pup. I give her lots of love, and she returns it ten-fold.

I'm not new to this, I've had dogs before, a GSD, a Lab, and two Italian Greyhounds.

I don't believe for a second that she's being "traumatized", she is being taken out for a reason, (potty), and the prong reminds her of that fact. For walks I use the flat collar and she does great, no pulling or veering off... right beside my left leg all the way.

In the two weeks I've had her, I've only had to use it three or four times when she was acting up. Jeez... I don't drag her around the yard with it!

I realize a lot of you feel like I'm doing it all wrong, or that I'll hurt her or create developmental problems. Well, I don't envision having to use it all the time. Just until she realizes that when we go to that part of the yard, it's for a reason and I expect her to do her business. Like I said, my yard is NOT fenced, and there are some dog owners in my neighborhood who let their dogs roam free, and they cr*p all over my yard. Although I clean up my dogs' poop, I can't always pick up the "stray" dogs' stuff. It's a potty break, not playtime, and I don't want her rolling around in mud and pee and poop. If the collar helps reach that end, then it's done it's job and I'll put it away.

I respect your views and concerns, and I hear what you are saying. I really do. I myself feel that 11 weeks is too young and I wish that it wasn't necessary to use it, but, the difference in the way she behaves is why I use it. Potty trips only, and only when she's acting up. Most of the time she's fine and the flat collar is acceptable. But sometimes she needs a little extra control, and that is when I use it. I love my dog to tears, and would never hurt her just so I can have an easy time. She is well loved and cared for. I posted this for general information for those who might be thinking about it for their own dog.

Brimauster, I think you love your puppy! I really do! And I think you believe you are doing the right thing with the collar.

Our point is, that we would prefer you praise, treat, reward your young puppy when she does RIGHT. Rather than feeling you have to use the prong to correct when she does wrong.

I know I train all my puppies to go right outside immediately to their poo/pee place to squat. So they take care of that as soon as we exit the house. With the puppy party I give they learn to LOVE to go pee/poo for me. Then we play and continue to stay outdoors for awhile.

I have had some friends (not saying this is your situation) that accidentally 'taught' their puppies that as soon as they are done with their business the fun of the great outdoors is OVER and they immediately get taken back in the house. So the owners started noticing a similar situation to yours, the puppies started NOT pooping/peeing immediately cause they realized the longer they took to squat, the more time they got to have fun in the yard. So weird how we think we teach our dogs one thing when they are learning something else entirely!

Most of us love and use the prong collar. We just feel that for such a young puppy, that is clearly just showing 'play' behavior, it's not appropriate. Punishment for play, on a puppy, isn't clear. You may THINK you are 'teaching' your puppy to focus/pay attention and pee. While you may actually be teaching your puppy that normal play behavior with you is wrong. Or sniffing is wrong (not good in a tracking dog LOL).

Do you have a local park/fenced in area you can play with when you take your dog out? So you can just be playing with the pup and she'll just poo/pee when she has to. And no leash even needed if the area is safe and within a fence.

Interesting side note: when I first started owning dogs and training them, it was all about seeing my dog's do something wrong so I could then correct them to show them that wasn't right. So it USED to be (and this was also with trainers and in dog classes) all about actually setting up our dogs to do something wrong so we could 'correct' them with a choke or prong collar. So my poor first dog spent her training career doing wrong wrong wrong and being corrected corrected corrected..............(poor baby).

The current mindset for most dog training, especially for puppies, is to have an active and thinking member of the dog training 'team'. And the 'team' is made up of the pup AND the handler. With both of us having to THINK come up with ideas and being innovative. Because, and listen to this cause it rocked my world initially It's about 'How can I THINK of ways to have my puppy do something RIGHT?'. Not just pop/correct on a leash (which is way easier and my instructor told me was the lazy way to train). I need to come up with a plan and see if it works. Using praise, treats, toys.

I want my pup to WANT to listen, want to learn, want to try new things to find out which of the new things is RIGHT! To earn my praise and reward. Rather than them end up being cautious and always getting corrected for being WRONG.

And I do correct my dogs. There are things that are wrong. But it's more along the lines of safety (jerking me off my feet by pulling the leash when they are adult? Running after a deer? Attacking another dog?) rather than almost any general training issues. Positive training isn't permissive....

Frankly, I want to be my dogs leader. And someone they want to listen to, learn from, and have guidance from. Not someone they feel they HAVE to listen to, or else.......

Some good sites to look at are:

http://www.clickerdogs.com/trainingreminders.htm

http://www.caninemind.com/id1.html

http://r-plusdogtraining.info/guide.htm