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Discussion Starter #1
The prong collar is banned in the province of Quebec, canada. So I was looking for an alternative and found this:

https://www.amazon.ca/StarMark-Training-Collar-Large-Black/dp/B00MTTAMDK/ref=sr_1_2?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1466148900&sr=1-2&keywords=prong+collar

Anyone ever used it? If not, what would be the best alternative?

Puppy is 5 months old now, the first 5 minutes or so of the walk she doesn't pull very much but it goes downhill from there. She's not pulling that hard but every time I correct her and bring her back to the heel positition with a flat collar or martingale, she either just doesn't mind it or is pretty stubborn. I'd like an alternative to the choker which I used with my other GSDs and wanted to try the prong but just found out about the ban.

Thanks!
 

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pinch collar is simply another word for prong collar. the names are interchangeable with most trainers because that is an accurate description of what a "prong" collar actually is and how it works.

with young puppies, I use a limited slip collar. it should still be all fun and games at 5 months old
 

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This issue has come up before - they are not banned, they are simply 'not approved'.

So they are officially frowned upon, but there is no legistlation in effect to ban them. I have a feeling that the organizations that are trying to get the collar banned are making it sound like they are.
 

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With most bans its about the typical style of prong. People see it and are horrified. When they see something that's not typical, they don't think of it. I'm sure the neck tech would be fine.
That being said, do not let your dog pull. Stop. Just stand still. Or change direction. And treat and reward.
I think that 5 mos old is still in the learning phase so don't correct something the dog does not know yet. Its confusing.
I'm not an expert and that's just my opinion. I carry high reward treats (cheese sticks) and reward all times I get eye contact. And when my dog gets excited I get him to focus on me, on walks.
 

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The neck tech collar is a prong/pinch collar. I use the neck tech martingale. I heard the snap collar neck tech has issues with the snap/buckle. I use the neck tech martingale just for extra control if I need it. You still need to dog your dog how to walk on a leash. To me it is in the middle between a flat collar and prong. The regular prong I think is more effective but the neck tech martingale works great for us. I like the look of it also and often get compliments on the collar as it doesn't look like a prong when worn by the dog. Another plus is it is also easier to put on then the regular prong. The regular prong collar made me realize how weak my hands really are when trying to put it on.
 

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This issue has come up before - they are not banned, they are simply 'not approved'.

So they are officially frowned upon, but there is no legistlation in effect to ban them. I have a feeling that the organizations that are trying to get the collar banned are making it sound like they are.
No, in Quebec they are banned, as well as electric collars, 600$ fines if you are caught using one after a warning. And people will actually report you if they see you using one, (removed by ADMIN). They just banned the pit bull this week in quebec city, people have 6 months to get rid of them because we've had a few attacks in a couple of weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I will look into the neck tech, thanks. I know at that age I'm not expecting her to be perfect, just a little tool to make things easier. I usually do some heeling for about 10 minutes, then let her enjoy the rest of the walk but also making sure to not let her pull on the leash as well.
 

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She's not pulling that hard but every time I correct her and bring her back to the heel positition with a flat collar or martingale, she either just doesn't mind it or is pretty stubborn.
As Cloudpump wrote, train your puppy, all you need is a flat collar.

How much off leash exercise does this puppy get?

Do you ever walk her loose leash or always heeling?
 

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The prong collar is banned in the province of Quebec, canada. So I was looking for an alternative and found this:

https://www.amazon.ca/StarMark-Training-Collar-Large-Black/dp/B00MTTAMDK/ref=sr_1_2?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1466148900&sr=1-2&keywords=prong+collar

Anyone ever used it? If not, what would be the best alternative?

Puppy is 5 months old now, the first 5 minutes or so of the walk she doesn't pull very much but it goes downhill from there. She's not pulling that hard but every time I correct her and bring her back to the heel positition with a flat collar or martingale, she either just doesn't mind it or is pretty stubborn. I'd like an alternative to the choker which I used with my other GSDs and wanted to try the prong but just found out about the ban.

Thanks!
Your post took me back to when my dog was 5 months old.
OMGosh!! I'd never want to go back there again. LOL
In addition to being stubborn, I swear he could pull a sled across Alaska.

Maybe consult a trainer that understands the breed and see what collar s/he recommends. Then sign up for that trainer's basic obedience class.
That's what I did and it worked.

I think it's really important that the walk with your dog should always be enjoyable.
Good luck.
 

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There has been so much contradictory information on the Quebec Prong Collar ban - I've done some research, and the law is that no collar that causes pain or interferes with breathing can be used. Prongs and electric collars are listed as examples of collars that could cause pain or could interfere with breathing, but are not banned per se. Funny thing is, that a regular flat collar can interfere with breathing, and so can a choke collar, yet those are on the list of "okay" collars.

I found one news item that quotes a government official as saying that specific collars are not banned - the use of the collars need to be governed by the animal's welfare, and the artivle makes a retraction at the end specifying that the no collars have been banned.

Quebec takes steps to protect pets from shock collars, prongs - Montreal | Globalnews.ca
Unfortunately even news outlets are quick to jump on the media band-wagon and repeat erroneous information without checking facts for themselves, and I've read the original french regulations, and no, the collars are not banned outright, but the wording with the examples of "approved" and "not approved" collars were clearly chosen to make it sound like the collars are banned.

As per the regulation, if you see a dog pulling so hard on a flat collar that their breathing is restricted, they are in contravention and you could report them!

EDA: A sport-dog blog on the Quebec regulation, and goes into more depth into the "recommended" and "not recommended" wording - highlights that no specific collar is banned.
http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.ca/2014/08/e-collars-in-quebec.html
 

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Discussion Starter #14
There has been so much contradictory information on the Quebec Prong Collar ban - I've done some research, and the law is that no collar that causes pain or interferes with breathing can be used. Prongs and electric collars are listed as examples of collars that could cause pain or could interfere with breathing, but are not banned per se. Funny thing is, that a regular flat collar can interfere with breathing, and so can a choke collar, yet those are on the list of "okay" collars.

I found one news item that quotes a government official as saying that specific collars are not banned - the use of the collars need to be governed by the animal's welfare, and the artivle makes a retraction at the end specifying that the no collars have been banned.

Quebec takes steps to protect pets from shock collars, prongs - Montreal | Globalnews.ca
Unfortunately even news outlets are quick to jump on the media band-wagon and repeat erroneous information without checking facts for themselves, and I've read the original french regulations, and no, the collars are not banned outright, but the wording with the examples of "approved" and "not approved" collars were clearly chosen to make it sound like the collars are banned.

As per the regulation, if you see a dog pulling so hard on a flat collar that their breathing is restricted, they are in contravention and you could report them!

EDA: A sport-dog blog on the Quebec regulation, and goes into more depth into the "recommended" and "not recommended" wording - highlights that no specific collar is banned.
Pointing Dog Blog: E-collars in Quebec
Yes there's a lot of contradicting reports and a lot of contradicting events and this is just provincial laws, there's also municipal laws as well. Ive heard of people getting fines, people go to court and win and have their fines cancelled but this is all a big mess that I want to avoid at all cost.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
As Cloudpump wrote, train your puppy, all you need is a flat collar.

How much off leash exercise does this puppy get?

Do you ever walk her loose leash or always heeling?
I practice fetch with her, also walk off leash with her in the woods and she's very very good at it. She will follow me all the time and if she gets a bit to far, just calling her and she's right back at me. She doesnt like to do anything else so far, no tugging or anything else.
 

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I practice fetch with her, also walk off leash with her in the woods and she's very very good at it. She will follow me all the time and if she gets a bit to far, just calling her and she's right back at me. She doesnt like to do anything else so far, no tugging or anything else.
I am a little confused. Are you saying she walks loose leash fine and only pulls when you try to make her heel?
 

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I am a little confused. Are you saying she walks loose leash fine and only pulls when you try to make her heel?
I practice fetch with her, also walk off leash with her in the woods and she's very very good at it. She will follow me all the time and if she gets a bit to far, just calling her and she's right back at me.
Sounds like she stays with the OP off leash, but pulls on leash.
 

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The prong collar is banned in the province of Quebec, canada. So I was looking for an alternative and found this:

https://www.amazon.ca/StarMark-Training-Collar-Large-Black/dp/B00MTTAMDK/ref=sr_1_2?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1466148900&sr=1-2&keywords=prong+collar

Anyone ever used it? If not, what would be the best alternative?

Puppy is 5 months old now, the first 5 minutes or so of the walk she doesn't pull very much but it goes downhill from there. She's not pulling that hard but every time I correct her and bring her back to the heel positition with a flat collar or martingale, she either just doesn't mind it or is pretty stubborn. I'd like an alternative to the choker which I used with my other GSDs and wanted to try the prong but just found out about the ban.

Thanks!
I looked at the collar your are considering. With the ban, I would be hesitant to advise using it as it does look like a prong collar. I have never used one, but if you are considering it, perhaps, to first ask your local police dept. or animal control if it would be allowable. I do understand the problems you are having, as my Sting was the same way. I did use a choker on him, and he didn't get the point of the corrections for the heeling. I would try circling him or turning sharply but that only worked for a bit. I finally removed the choker and did train him to heel off leash first by using treats - I would hold the treat by my waist on my left side when he came up to me , he got it, then I gradually had him walk a bit by my side before he got it. Heeling does take a lot of concentration and is very difficult for a young dog - so I just did it a little bit. For leash walking, I did use a flat collar and leash and the method described by Turid Rugaas in her book: My Dog Pulls: What do I do? But though it did help, as he got stronger and older, if he saw something, he would lunge and go. So then I decided to use a harness - front ring. There are several kinds. I used the Walk In Sync https://dogwalkinsync.com/ and the training method. For him, it worked great and I could then walk him in town on leash. It may be an alternative for you to consider.
 

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She's not pulling that hard but every time I correct her and bring her back to the heel positition with a flat collar or martingale, she either just doesn't mind it or is pretty stubborn.
Sounds like she stays with the OP off leash, but pulls on leash.
I don't know, sounds like she is pulling while OP is trying to train heel.
 

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You can use a prong collar but the most important thing, regardless of the correction collar, is to teach them what you want! And you can do that on flat collar or martingale. They need to learn to release to the pressure of the collar.

It's very easy. There are a couple ways I've done it

1) This is very effective
The Domestics of Leash Walking | Naughty Dogge - Monique Anstee

2) When the dog goes to the end of the leash, slowly back up until the dog turns to you, lure into the position you want and reward. You build up steps in the right position. So first week might be just backing up and rewarding once your dog is back in position. Second week might be 3 steps walking with the line loose and in position.

For some reason, I do things in 3's. 3 steps loose line, 3 steps focused heeling. I have no idea why. I think it restricts me from pushing the dog to soon. 3 steps, 6 steps, 9 steps and you got it. :) If they can do 10, they can do 30.
 
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