German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 57 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,410 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Not sure if this goes here or another place so move if need be.

Here goes.I need a take on something another member is saying about crate times for puppies and ending up with a badly behaving dog.

This member is telling a new owner that because he has to work and crate his puppy from 1 PM - 5 or 6 PM he shouldn't own a puppy only a fish.He is also saying he is unfit to own a dog because of this.
I happened to be able to be home with my dogs but I know not everyone else is able to so what have peoples experiences been with this?
Did your dog have any behavior problems from being crated and not by your side every minute?
Have you had the chance to be able to do both and see a difference with the way they were grew up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,372 Posts
huh...guess I shouldn't own any dogs then.

How many threads have we had telling ppl to crate their dogs and that the dogs sleep all day when we aren't there (unless they are eating 3lbs of margerine...that was a mess) and the will be fine?

Where is the thread because I think I might like to add a little something?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,927 Posts
I had a lab that I raised for Guiding Eyes for the blind. He HAD to be crated as this was how they are trained. He was crated at bed time & also for a minium of 2 hrs a day. (rest time...etc)
My GSD now has never been crated.
I see NO difference in how they behaved.
But then again, the labs could be different...?
They were both non-neutered.
Kilo does good for about an 1 or 2hrs by himself. (If excersised before hand.)
My lab could sit in his crate all day.
(Very different drives though. That could also be a factor.)
My lab LOVED his crate.
Kilo,I had him crate training for about 2 weeks. He would CRY ALL NIGHT. I had to get up for work at 5 am. So I decided we would not crate train. I got NO sleep at night for 2 weeks.
i dont know if this helped any........
But like I said. They are both well behaved (dont have the lab anymore)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,829 Posts
Originally Posted By: Jax08Where is the thread because I think I might like to add a little something?
me too.

Morgan loves her crate. When she was young I worked F/T. She was not trustworthy even in the kitchen. My DH worked 3 days a week from 8 - 8, the other 2 days was 1 - 8. He was 10 minutes away from home so he'd come home on lunch during his 12 hour days to let her out for pee breaks. He says she was nutty on her break but it was only 2 days a week. She grew up to be a fine dog.

Otto never cared much for his crate and didn't need it past 7 months, he was fine contained in the kitchen. He was crated for TOs, nappies, the works. His only behavior issue is he likes to walk me and turns into a psycho every time I take him out with my oldest son (who's also a bit touched)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,571 Posts
Here Allie:

http://www.mysmartpuppy.com/articles/YoureGrounded.htm

I AM home most of the day. I intentionally crate my dogs to have BETTER behaved and more independent dog. Dogs that don't know how to be independent and self-entertain are dogs that can develop over-dependence, and therefore anxiety issues.

These issues manifest themselves in such simple things as the inability to pass the supervised separation section of the CGC to more worrisome resource guarding of the owner, to destructive behaviors (of property and self-inflicted wounds) when the owner is not around. Does every dog who hasn't been crated do this? Of course not. But when we're dealing with a young puppy, we're not sure who he'll grow up to be. A crate is yet another tool to help us guide him. Especially for owners who don't have years of socializing and training dogs under their belts, a crate is a handy simple tool to manage and train a dog.

Of course, some of this depends on breed; some of this depends on temperament; some of this depends on the owner's temperament and how they interact with the dog.

But I use 6 different trainers (not counting agility trainers) during the course of my dogs' life. They each own their own training facilities or are head trainers, and all are considered reputable and good at what they do. ALL of them strongly recommend crating and tethering puppies -- not just while you're away from home but while you're at home too. If you read most of the nationally renown trainers, they suggest the same.

Never mind all of the other benefits, like how easy it makes housebreaking and keeping puppy from harming himself when we can't devote 100% of our attention to him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
538 Posts
It's in the Introductions and Welcome section. I was just looking at it.

Allie,
I've done both ways. My first 2 dogs were crated during the day. I was single at the time and worked about 5-10 minutes away from my house. I would go home and let them out at lunch time. As they got older, I started to train them to be out of the crates during the day, but still went home at lunch time. I never in the 10 years for Kelly or the 14+ years for Max had any problems with them. They were exercised and played with and obedience trained and went with me as often as possible. But they routinely spent ~ 4 hours per morning and ~ 4 hours in the afternoon in crates in their first year or so.

With Rica, crate time was even about 9 hours a day with no break - because by then I was living in CT and have a 30+ minute drive from home for work. It wasn't possible to go home to let her out. It took a little longer to housebreak her because of that. The first few months she didn't have enough bladder control, but in the long run she still turned out fine. I never had any problems that we couldn't work through. A little leash aggression to new dogs when she was young, but we worked on that and fixed it. And that behavior had nothing to do with crate time and everything to do with how much free time I had for socializing her.

With Aodhán and Caleb - my DH works from home. So he is there most of the day. Aodhán was crate trained but only spent a few hours at a time every now and then in her crate, until she was trained to be out when DH had to run an errand. Caleb has been crate trained and I would put him in the crate for a nap or he couldn't be supervised, even if we were both home, if he needed it. He's 8 months home and DH has started to let him stay out of the crate if he runs an errand. Knock on wood, he hasn't got in to any trouble. (But I keep telling DH I think he's pushing his luck
. It'll be on his head if the couch gets eaten.
)
Aodhán has also turned out fine and Caleb seems to be doing pretty well.

I'll grant that if I had the option, it would be to not have to crate for long hours, if someone is home. But it does work. I think it all depends on the particular dog and the amount of time the owner spends when they are home.

Wasn't there some comment on a thread or two that dogs need about 17-18 hours of sleep to properly develop. I'm sure a dog spending that time in the crate is sleeping most of the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,410 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Sorry I had to prepare supper and take my dog out to potty.
I'm glad I have back up on this one.It really disturbs me when kind of new people come on and are total jerks like this guy is being to the newest guy.
He is trying to do everything else right so no need to bash him for working.If he didn't work he'd get bashed for that too...:(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,372 Posts
Who had the great set up for a puppy? Wasn't that Elizabeth who bought a pen and set it up in her kitchen?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,829 Posts
I read through the five pages and commented. I think the pup is confined a bit much and made a few suggestions (without being rude I hope).

Originally it was 6:30 to noon, and then wife comes home for lunch and pup is crated again until 6 or 7PM. And also at night. Pup is 12 weeks old and has been leaking in the crate in the afternoon.

Later pages say the pup is crated 7 hours during the day, 5 at night and the pup hasn't had an accident in a week.

With drive times, I think the poster's original post is more believeable.

The individual that made a few choice comments about it, has some good points, and while I agree with some of what they are saying, I think that when something is better received, it is more likely people will act on what you say.

I think that it is hard to say people must be able to stay at home or work only part time to care for a pupppy.

If you must work to live, having money for day care is generally hard too.

Not all places have dog walkers, daycare available.

I think we have to do the best with what we have and be open and creative with our resources.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,004 Posts
Ike is crated A LOT. 17-18 hours sounds about right. I've multiple crates in the house and I stick him in whichever one is handy and unoccupied at the time. One big 48" in the basement. One 42" in the bedroom. The shipping crate that came with him in the guest room and then another 36" in that room as well.

Variety is the spice of life!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,829 Posts
I think that being in a crate is not as bad if the dog is not alone. A dog crated in the kitchen while you are cooking, not a problem. Crated while sleeping, ok, but I prefer to let dogs and puppies find the most comfortable spots and positions, stretch their legs, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
Wouldn't the amount of "healthy" crating depend on the age and personality of the individual dog?

Being a novice GSD owner, I concluded from researching the breed that a typical GSD puppy would probably not fair well being crated alone during the day while my wife and I worked 8-10 hours of the day. Knowing our Jedi is a very social guy, daycare works well for him. He is crated for about 7-8 hours at night while we sleep. I don't think much more crating during the day would be healthy for my dog-he's 6 1/2 months old. On my days off, he may be crated 1-2 hours during the day.

BUT I would venture to guess the are well-adjusted GSD's that can be crated several hours during the day. Typically, wouldn't these be mature dogs with the right personality?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
I have a 6 month old pup right now and have had him since he was 10 weeks. I work full time as does my boyfriend.

Starting young he was created during the day from 8 am - 11am (then i came home for lunch) and back in the create 1 - 4:30. He was also created at night (taken our for potty).

Now that he is 6 mos: he is created all day when I'm at work (8 hours) - I try to get home for lunch as much as I can but it doesn't ALWAYS happen. And then from the moment I get home, he has free reign until the next morning when it's time for work.

Result: A seriously happy puppy who has never chewed anything other than a toy and who was completely potty trained by the time he was 3.5 mos old.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,363 Posts
I think that 17-18 hours is a LONG TIME for a dog to be crated. I do believe there are health issues around this, particularly for big dogs - there are some documented back problems.

I have to crate my dog while I'm at work, and he is getting callouses on his elbows because he pushes aside all the bedding we put in with him.

I don't think crating is a one-size-fits-all solution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,829 Posts
Speaking of crating and puppies, I currently have three puppies in two crates in the back of my car, and they HAVE been in there too long.

Babs is in the back seat.

Hmmmph! What SHOULD I be doing???

Well, we did some socializing at the vet with the pups and got some revolution. (I exposed them to fleas, haven't seen any, but decided to treat them.) Anyhow, it is now POURING outside. So if I take them out of the car they will get wet.

This is my life.

I plan to treat the rest of my crew this evening when I bring them in, and then at least they will be in for the night. 184 dollars wasted due to rain would not be a good thing. The pups can get in and out all night, Sooooo...

Anyway, like it or not, they are stuck in crates in my car and have been in there since about 1:30.

I am a big fan of crating while driving, but not crating for the day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
467 Posts
Originally Posted By: selzerI read through the five pages and commented. I think the pup is confined a bit much and made a few suggestions (without being rude I hope).

Originally it was 6:30 to noon, and then wife comes home for lunch and pup is crated again until 6 or 7PM. And also at night. Pup is 12 weeks old and has been leaking in the crate in the afternoon.

Later pages say the pup is crated 7 hours during the day, 5 at night and the pup hasn't had an accident in a week.

With drive times, I think the poster's original post is more believeable.

The individual that made a few choice comments about it, has some good points, and while I agree with some of what they are saying, I think that when something is better received, it is more likely people will act on what you say.

I think that it is hard to say people must be able to stay at home or work only part time to care for a pupppy.

If you must work to live, having money for day care is generally hard too.

Not all places have dog walkers, daycare available.

I think we have to do the best with what we have and be open and creative with our resources.
Sorry if I made this misunderstanding. I feed the dog at 6:30am but my gf doesn't leave for work until 8am. So thats an hour and a half difference right there. She gets home usually around 5, sometimes as late as 6.

I'm the new guy we are referring to btw lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,004 Posts
Well, I wouldn't call callous a health problem ...

Also, it's not 17-18 hours straight. Sleep is 7-8 hours more or less. Take the pup out for potty, breakfast, and play and then back to the crate for 3-4 hours. An hour break in the middle of the day for the pup to act like a nut and then back to the crate for 3-4 hours nap and downtime. Out to play again and then dinner. Back to crate right after dinner for obvious digestion reasons. Back out again for a little bit of fun and potty and then it's bedtime.

Add it up and that's 16-17 hours right there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,004 Posts
Originally Posted By: selzerSpeaking of crating and puppies, I currently have three puppies in two crates in the back of my car, and they HAVE been in there too long.

Babs is in the back seat.

Hmmmph! What SHOULD I be doing???

Well, we did some socializing at the vet with the pups and got some revolution. (I exposed them to fleas, haven't seen any, but decided to treat them.) Anyhow, it is now POURING outside. So if I take them out of the car they will get wet.

This is my life.

I plan to treat the rest of my crew this evening when I bring them in, and then at least they will be in for the night. 184 dollars wasted due to rain would not be a good thing. The pups can get in and out all night, Sooooo...

Anyway, like it or not, they are stuck in crates in my car and have been in there since about 1:30.

I am a big fan of crating while driving, but not crating for the day.
Ike is in my car right now too. A good part of the day when he is crated he is crated inside the car. This way I can take him everywhere and anytime I see a good opportunity for socialization (we just got back from an auto repair place where he got to walk around in the shop, say hi to a bunch of strangers, and listen to some weird loud noises) all I have to do is pop open the back latch and get him out.
 
1 - 20 of 57 Posts
Top