German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,988 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I went to another vet yesterday. The vet, luckily, is a German American and all around he definitely is the better Vet, but it is a 45 minute drive from my house.

One advantage was that he could tell me in German what exactly is going which is a huge advantage. There is just something about hearing it in your own language that makes you understand much better.

He is very positive about her condition. She is completely dry, no redness, absolutely no more blood in the stool, no infection and has only one hole and she is not even on Cyclo yet.

I told him that I switched them all to Salmon and Potato, that I was advised to keep it clean with Baby Wipes and to put Desitin on it after every Bowel Movement and that it took about two weeks for the blood to go away and to dry it out. That she is getting Kefir regularly and that helps her with the Digestion.

He said that she is looking much better than all the other cases he's seen, especially that she's got only one hole instead of 6-7 that he's seen in other dogs and I know, the picture that I've got from her when it first was found, looks much worse as well. Plus the reduced Stress might play a role in it too.

Anyhow, he gave us Prednisolone.
Now I never had a dog on Prednisolone and I looked up possible Side Effects. I think her skin is much itchier than it used to be and I know that she's been on Steroids in Texas, it is JUST NOW getting better.

Here is my question. I'm having such good results with keeping it clean, desitin, Kefir and the Salmon food, Fish and Flax Seed Oil that I am considering to keep it that way. Her coat has become shiny again and the itching is reduced by almost 50% by now. It has become much much less, now that she is back.

If I do start administering it to her I'm supposed to give her a high dosage in the first 10 days. One tabled in the morning, one in the evening. After that 1/2 a tablet in the morning and evening for ten days and then only 1/2 a tablet until gone.

The side effects can be very serious on Prednisolone and I'm wondering if anyone here has experience to counter those with supplements that go well with Prednisolone? Obviously she will continue to get Kefir which I do believe helps a great deal. It is proven that Kefir does have great and positive healing effects on the body.

She is doing so well without all that chemicals in her body... it's not gone but it has gotten definitely much much better but at the same time there is a chance of it going away with Prednisolone but I do fear the side effects. Especially since she was exceptionally itchy when she got here and her coat was dull and I'm also worried about aggression/behavioral issues. :help:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,988 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
ps: also read that water is a big side effect. The excessive thirst. Did you manage the water or did you just drink as they needed to?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,616 Posts
I'm also worried about aggression/behavioral issues. :help:
I can't speak to most the other stuff you're asking, but I can tell you that when I first started Pimg on prednisone at 7mg/day- there was definitely some aggression issues I had to be mindful of. It wasn't until I was able to reduce her down to 5mg/day that the aggression issues subsided. She now take 4mg/day which is her lowest dose. I've tried 3.5mg/day but I just don't like how she acts at that low of dose (which for a maintanance dose, is really not low at all). Easily tired. Lack of energy. Excessive panting... So I stay at 4mg. Of course, I'm talking about a physiologic dose while you're talking about a much higher dose for anti-inflammatory reasons. I guess in a word- yes, I'd definitely be mindful of aggression issues from a high dosage.

ps: also read that water is a big side effect. The excessive thirst. Did you manage the water or did you just drink as they needed to?
I recently discussed this with my vet as Pimg was having some incontinence issues (which went away in about a week- must have been a very minor bladder infection). She specifically told me that one should never limit water for a dog on prednisone. I'd image it's the same for prednisolone.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,021 Posts
My older dog has had this twice. One hole each time. The first time they had to drain it, the second time was just medicine. They told me not to put anything on it and she was on baytril. And it healed quite nicely by the follow up 7 days later. Not to sure about prednisolone.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,988 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I can't speak to most the other stuff you're asking, but I can tell you that when I first started Pimg on prednisone at 7mg/day- there was definitely some aggression issues I had to be mindful of. It wasn't until I was able to reduce her down to 5mg/day that the aggression issues subsided. She now take 4mg/day which is her lowest dose. I've tried 3.5mg/day but I just don't like how she acts at that low of dose (which for a maintanance dose, is really not low at all). Easily tired. Lack of energy. Excessive panting... So I stay at 4mg. Of course, I'm talking about a physiologic dose while you're talking about a much higher dose for anti-inflammatory reasons. I guess in a word- yes, I'd definitely be mindful of aggression issues from a high dosage.
I'm already starting to separate her again from the others. Just because I know that she can be a little resource guarder. So if that enhances aggression issues, better start doing it now. Guess I will have to keep her separated from the females for a while too. Not going to take any chances, especially not with currently having 6 females.
And she is a resource guarder when it comes up to food. What I mean with that is not while she is eating, she is resource guarding the food storage bin. If I bring a new bag of food in the house and don't put it away instantly, she won't let any other dog near it. There are only certain things she is resource guarding and that is why I wouldn't be surprised if she'd actually shows an increase and became food aggressive once she's really on it.

I recently discussed this with my vet as Pimg was having some incontinence issues (which went away in about a week- must have been a very minor bladder infection). She specifically told me that one should never limit water for a dog on prednisone. I'd image it's the same for prednisolone.
Ok. Sounds good and valid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,649 Posts
If she is healing, why add this in at all? I hate steroids so I'm probably the last person who should be commenting but I'm not following why you'd want to start her on this and risk having additional problems because of the drug if she is healing with the regimen you're using.

If it's because of allergies then there are natural things you can use with no side effects. In my experience, those are more effective than steroids.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,270 Posts
I'm already starting to separate her again from the others. Just because I know that she can be a little resource guarder. So if that enhances aggression issues, better start doing it now. Guess I will have to keep her separated from the females for a while too. Not going to take any chances, especially not with currently having 6 females.
And she is a resource guarder when it comes up to food. What I mean with that is not while she is eating, she is resource guarding the food storage bin. If I bring a new bag of food in the house and don't put it away instantly, she won't let any other dog near it. There are only certain things she is resource guarding and that is why I wouldn't be surprised if she'd actually shows an increase and became food aggressive once she's really on it.



Ok. Sounds good and valid.

I've never had to give it to my dogs, but I've had to take it myself. :( Any form of pred is nasty. She will be hungry all the time so if she resource guards food it will probably make it worse. Thirsty for sure. Extra water weight yes she will need it, other longer term side effects include thin skin and high blood pressure. But hopefully she won't have to be on it very long.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,818 Posts
Mrs. K. Not sure this is much help to you. My hound mix was recently on Prednisone. As others have stated, he was a bit more aggressive. Never any fear of him biting, but he was growlier and touchier than normal. He drank a lot and peed a lot. Had a few accidents, when he was on the higher dose. As he started the lower doses, the side-effects subsided.

He is completely back to normal now. If the Prednisone is just for temporary usage, I wouldn't worry too much about the side-effects. They should lessen and stop, as the medication lessens and stops.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,616 Posts
Yes, good point on being hungry. In the past, I had just left an open bag of food in the pantry (without a door). Pimg never snuck in for a snack. She never got into the garbage for a snack. Never anything like that. On pred though, she would sneak lots of snacks wherever she could find it. I had to get a locking lid for the trash and move my dog food storage into closable containers. It will definitely increase hunger...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,441 Posts
The pred. is going to suppress the immune system....you need a healthy strong immune system to repair the body.

Suppliment additional probiotics and enzymes (along w/the kefir)

Bovine colostrum is indicated in gastro intestinal repair, immune modulating to assist the body to fight bacteria and yeasts, microbs/parasites that could be impeeding the healing process.

healing takes time, if the body is already showing that it is progressing in a possitive direction, I wouldn't want to mess w/that, IMO :)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,988 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Yeah, resource guarding is a problem with Indra. She basically resource guards the kitchen counter from her crate, or if I feed another dog in a crate and Indra is out, she will resource guard the food bowl from OUTSIDE the crate, even though it's not hers and she can't get to it, she's just weird like that BUT I can feed her absolutely fine with other dogs. You can take that bowl away and do everything with her while she is eating, she won't get into another dogs food and has absolutely no food aggression.

She's got some funny quirks.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,988 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
The pred. is going to suppress the immune system....you need a healthy strong immune system to repair the body.

Suppliment additional probiotics and enzymes (along w/the kefir)

Bovine colostrum is indicated in gastro intestinal repair, immune modulating to assist the body to fight bacteria and yeasts, microbs/parasites that could be impeeding the healing process.

healing takes time, if the body is already showing that it is progressing in a possitive direction, I wouldn't want to mess w/that, IMO :)

Yes, she is showing progress. When she first got here, boy was she itchy. I've never seen her that itchy. She was constantly scratching and I do know she was on Steroids, Cyclo, Antibiotics, so she had to deal with a lot of chemicals.

I had her on food and kept her on raw, when she first got here she had solid stools. After a couple of days she's had horrible Diarrhea and blood in her stool. I then took her off the Kefir and Raw until her stool turned normal again. Once she was off the raw she turned back to normal but then she showed discomfort and had blood in her stool from the pressure so I started feeding the Kefir separate and two days later put it back into her meal.

I was told she was fed raw in Texas. Either the meat quality is horrible out here (which it is, heck, I'm getting sick from it) or something else was going on, either way, she's doing absolutely fantastic on the Salmon and Potato in combination with Kefir, Fish Oil and Flax Seed. The pooping has gotten easier. Surprisingly it is not as dark as the poop from the others, even though they are on the same food, but it's nice and solid.

The itching has gotten much better. It's almost back to normal. Her coat is becoming shiny and the dullness is gone. Her frontlegs are starting to grow fur, where she had injuries from breaking out of the kennel, and overall she is just starting to look more healthy.

I'm a strong believer in the healing power of Kefir, got that from my Granddad. :wub:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,954 Posts
I hate steroids, as well. And my rule is to not mess with a good thing. I would just let the body heal it. You already have a great start.
Are you giving Wobenzym?

PS! did you get the kefir grains from that website? I am making it every day and drinking one portion a day and one in the evening. I am now finding that I crave it :crazy:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,988 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I hate steroids, as well. And my rule is to not mess with a good thing. I would just let the body heal it. You already have a great start.
Are you giving Wobenzym?

PS! did you get the kefir grains from that website? I am making it every day and drinking one portion a day and one in the evening. I am now finding that I crave it :crazy:
Yep, got the Deluxe kit from the Website. I had so much that I gave some away and started some babygrains on milk while I produced a Gallon with the main culture only to have MaDeuce EAT it. So now I'm back to producing a quarter and build it up. Indra is the only one getting it so far but even that Quarter each morning makes a huge difference in her comfort.

I am not giving her Wobenzyme since she's getting the Kefir. I am thinking about it though.

I hear you about craving Kefir. When I had my first glass I didn't know how much I missed it and how good it feels to have it. If I'm having Kefir, I don't crave junk food.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,796 Posts
IMHO Pred is a miracle drug, but one I use after I've tried everything else I can think of, it scares me.

Over the years I've had dogs on Pred, most were short term, a couple long term, one was on 20mg a day for many years.

Different dogs had different side effects, some had none at all. Thirst, hunger, increased urine output, excessive panting, muscle changes, are a few of the side effects I can recall that various dogs experienced. The dosages they took ranged from 80mg a day (which was gradually reduced to zero) on down to Slider's 5mg every other day which I'm sure will have to be increased as he gets older.

GOOD LUCK!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,954 Posts
If I'm having Kefir, I don't crave junk food.
:wild:

I'm craving junk food right now! Thank you, I think I'll go have a little and see if it helps. I am thinking of trying the water kefir.

Glad Ma can tolerate it.
Unfortunately, I gave Hans some grains , thinking they would be good for him, and that caused epic diarrhea and gas. Had to put him on Metronidaziole. :eek:That dog has the most sensitive gut ever.

I would highly recommend stinging nettle tea for cleaning her butt. I just used it to treat some pyoderma on Hans and the effect was miraculous.
Also, Vetericyn. I spray his behind with that after he poops. Because he has had some anal gland issues, the vet wants me to keep the area clean.

You would think German Shepherds are low-maintenance dogs, by their looks. Wrong!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,954 Posts
Oh, one more thing. If you want kefir faster, put the grains in the blender with the milk.
Breaking them up makes them produce faster because more of their surface comes into contact with the milk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,140 Posts
I've seen several dogs who were previously perfectly potty trained (and very reliable for a long time) have some urination accidents in the house while on pred. They drink so much and just can't hold it the way the normally do, so don't be surprised if it happens, as they seem to not be able to help it.

Be sure you get a step-down schedule from your vet for the pred that gradually lowers the dosage instead of just stopping it when you run out (e.g., dropping down to every other day after a while of giving it every day). That's likely what he did already in his instructions, but it's very important to follow that exactly.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,988 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
:wild:

I'm craving junk food right now! Thank you, I think I'll go have a little and see if it helps. I am thinking of trying the water kefir.

Glad Ma can tolerate it.
Unfortunately, I gave Hans some grains , thinking they would be good for him, and that caused epic diarrhea and gas. Had to put him on Metronidaziole. :eek:That dog has the most sensitive gut ever.

I would highly recommend stinging nettle tea for cleaning her butt. I just used it to treat some pyoderma on Hans and the effect was miraculous.
Also, Vetericyn. I spray his behind with that after he poops. Because he has had some anal gland issues, the vet wants me to keep the area clean.

You would think German Shepherds are low-maintenance dogs, by their looks. Wrong!
Indra is the first dog I've ever seen with PF. We've never had a dog with PF, ever.

Also, if you look around. We all become more prone to Allergies, Auto Immune Diseases and what not. It's not just with the dogs, it's all of us and I do believe that a lot of it has to do with our food, water and how we live.

Growing up on a farm and being exposed to certain things made me healthy as a horse. I don't get sick very often but there are certain things I react to, like the meat you get out here and most German Army wives I met here in Drum have the same fight I have and that is struggling with the excess amount of weight we've gained since we moved here.
I swear there is something in the food out here that makes people fat or that we are not used to. Be it the super easy access to all those fast food restaurant which basically jump right into your face everywhere and anywhere or that the real healthy stuff is astronomically expensive.

I still don't know what I can or should eat or not and I swear, the same things that make us sick, makes our dogs sick too.

It's the entire environment. Just knowing how much fluoride and bleach they put in our water and you can literally SMELL that bleach and you take a shower makes me uneasy.

I think our environment makes us all sick. It's how we eat, drink, live that makes people and dogs sick alike. Indra has always been a healthy dogs. She has absolutely no allergies and for her, all of a sudden to get an autoimmune thing and being the ONLY DOG out of three or four repeat litters with an autoimmune issue, it's a bit weird... just doesn't make any sense to me.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,988 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Oh, one more thing. If you want kefir faster, put the grains in the blender with the milk.
Breaking them up makes them produce faster because more of their surface comes into contact with the milk.
But isn't metal bad for the grains? I was always told not to use metal because it can damage the grains.
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top