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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all. Need your advice. It's actually getting frustrating that my soon to be 7 months old puppy is not even close to being potty trained yet.

I'm crate training him and I can say that the crate size is big/small enough for him to be potty trained. No stool issue as well. The way I see it, it's more about his potty break schedule.

I feed him at 6am. As I go to work, our helper feeds him small amount at 12 noon (I'm slowly transitioning him to 2x a day feeding from 3x a day). Then I feed him again at 8pm.

Accidents happen after the 8pm feeding (between 1:00 to 5:00 I think). I however bring him out from 8:15pm to 11:30pm for potty break but often bring him back to his crate without pooping. The 15mins after feeding potty schedule just doesnt work for him.

Now if you'll ask why 8pm, it is because that's the time I usually arrive home and I want to take the opportunity of using his night ration for OB training (though I also train him every morning).

If you're in my position how would you go about this? Would you 1) simply wake up between the early hours of 1 to 5am and bring him to potty breaks, or 2)feed him at around 5pm (by our helper) cut the OB training and do it only in the morning so I could have more window of opportunity to bring him to potty breaks? Any other options?

Thank you.

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Feed him earlier. Can you train him with toys in the evening instead? Can you use small training treats (and not as many as you would with a meal) to train when you get home? The training is important, so if possible, that should stick around.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Feed him earlier. Can you train him with toys in the evening instead? Can you use small training treats (and not as many as you would with a meal) to train when you get home? The training is important, so if possible, that should stick around.
Toys and smaller treats! Why didn't I think of that! Yes, I can do that. Thank you!

Hopefully he'll be as motivated as when he is hungry though. But if I give him say additional 20 pieces kibbles, won't it cause him to go potty again (though for a lesser amount) anyway?

Will make use of toys and use his good ball drive. Just can't use it in some part of the routine.

Thanks for the ideas!

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Is your dog having separation anxiety issues? You didn't say what time you leave to work but I presume if you're getting up at 6 AM, you're leaving for work around 8 AM and therefore spending about 12 hours out of the house on top of the crate time the dog has overnight? Even with a helper coming, how long does the pup get out? That's a lot of crate time. Your pup may become incontinent through anxiety. Meaning we can give all types of advice, but the core issue isn't being addressed.


Could you set up a camera to observe his behavior while you're gone?

5 GSDs and I've had maybe a handful of crate accidents, mostly due to exigent circumstances causing extended crate time. It seems to naturally be an absolute last resort for them as long as their crate isn't too big. It is definitely not normal for them to be going in their crate regularly. But I've heard of dogs with severe anxiety issues becoming incontinent easily.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Is your dog having separation anxiety issues? You didn't say what time you leave to work but I presume if you're getting up at 6 AM, you're leaving for work around 8 AM and therefore spending about 12 hours out of the house on top of the crate time the dog has overnight? Even with a helper coming, how long does the pup get out? That's a lot of crate time. Your pup may become incontinent through anxiety. Meaning we can give all types of advice, but the core issue isn't being addressed.


Could you set up a camera to observe his behavior while you're gone?

5 GSDs and I've had maybe a handful of crate accidents, mostly due to exigent circumstances causing extended crate time. It seems to naturally be an absolute last resort for them as long as their crate isn't too big. It is definitely not normal for them to be going in their crate regularly. But I've heard of dogs with severe anxiety issues becoming incontinent easily.
Hi Dutchy,

You're right, I leave home at around 7 or 8am. Our helper brings him out every 2 hours. Everytime he goes potty, he gets to play in our fenced yard for about an hour. By next week, we might transition his breaks to intervals of 2.5 hours. I don't think he's having anxiety issues. The accident seem to have been caused more by his potty schedule.

Do you mean, a camera inside his crate?

Thank you!

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I think what Dutchy meant is setting up a camera outside the crate that can monitor his behaviour between that 'accident' time window. I have an acquaintance who did that. He found out that between 2-4am he started going around and that's when the accidents happen. He did that for a week and then took it from there. Don't set up a camera inside a crate............... That's some serious safety hazards
 

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But if I give him say additional 20 pieces kibbles, won't it cause him to go potty again (though for a lesser amount) anyway?
Not sure. I think it depends on the dog, so you'll have to experiment. My puppy wouldn't have gone again after only a few pieces like that, but I always made sure he was freshly pooped right before bedtime.

If he only has a small amount to go after some treats, it would make sense for him to hold it vs. really having to go after a big meal.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Not sure. I think it depends on the dog, so you'll have to experiment. My puppy wouldn't have gone again after only a few pieces like that, but I always made sure he was freshly pooped right before bedtime.

If he only has a small amount to go after some treats, it would make sense for him to hold it vs. really having to go after a big meal.
So I asked the helper to feed him at 5pm today. When I got home at 9:30 I immediately brought him to his potty area and there he instantly pooped. I asked the helper though to bring him out to the potty area every hour from 5pm to 9pm but was told he never pooped.

Upon observation, he poops upon waking up, more or less 4 hours after lunch, and just now, 4 hours after dinner. So no potty between breakfast and lunch.

I could say he now has a fresh empty bladder except for the 20 pcs I gave him for his night short training.

Keeping fingers crossed that I'll wake up tomorrow morning with a clean crate.

Thanks for the advice!

Goodnight.

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Discussion Starter #9
Thankfully my puppy never had another accident since my last post here. All I needed to do was to change his dinner time to 6pm. Big thanks to your advice!

Now, this is a little off topic but still related to potty training.

It's rainy season here in the Philippines and the only dry place I can set my foot on is inside our house. With that I had to bring my dog to the covered garage. Had a hard time making him go potty on concrete. More so because it was wet. Might try temporarily putting newspapers or artificial turf in one of the elevated areas here.

A friend however suggested an alternative. Putting a pot full of soil for the pup to smell. According to him, the smell of the soil would make the pup think that he's in the right area regardless of where he is standing on (be it grass, soil, concrete, newspaper, etc.), and even if it's wet. Has anyone tried this method? Would I be better off using potty training drops?



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Neither dogs nor humans melt in the rain. Take your dog outside to potty regardless of weather. Most of my dogs did not relish being in the pouring rain so they hurried it up. The first few times may be uncomfortable but my guess is that very shortly he will learn to go quickly and get back in out of the weather.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My pup just had 2 consecutive accidents in his crate. Perhaps I was wrong about the size of his crate? Purchased 48×32×35 size crate. To reduce the size, I placed a crate/box on one end. Didnt do anything to reduce the width though. Here's a picture of the crate with my pup inside it.

Thank you!


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Discussion Starter #12
My pup just had another accident this morning! Please help. I'm short of losing it. Upon further reading, I even have the right crate size, i.e., width: just enough to stretch his legs when lying on his side; length: tip of nose to base of tail.

Dog's size:
height to withers - 24"
Nose to tail - 38"

Crate size:
Width (floor) - 24"
Width (mid section) - 28"
Length" 39"


I really dont know why he's still doing it. There has been a time when he had no accident for several weeks until just recently.
Kept him clean since I got him. Just never had the chance to potty train him immediately as he had an almost a month-long bout of diarrhea. I also saw the place where the breeder kept him and I'm sure he was never used to soiling his crate.

His poop is normal. I bring him out every 3 hours except of course at night. Before we sleep, I make sure "potty" is the last thing he does. First thing in the morning, I bring him out.

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It seems at this point that it's a habit and will be very hard to break. Sorry, I don't remember if you've already said this, but has he been to the vet recently for a full workup? Meaning fecal, urine sample, and possibly even a blood test? I would just want to be absolutely sure it isn't a health issue before diving into training to "fix" the problem.

If it's for sure not a health issue, I think he will need a smaller crate than what you have. Does he actually lay in his waste when he goes? Or does he try to avoid it? If he has no problems laying in it, you are in for one tough ride.
 

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How much exercise is he getting prior to bedtime? Perhaps he is not evacuating completely? I run my boy 1-2 hours after eating to get him to poop, otherwise he will just hold it. I, too, had a problem with him initially until I found that he needed a good game of fetch or a run with the flirt stick to 'get things moving'. He eats 2 meals a day and has 2 bowel movements. Anything more and I start worrying about parasites, SIBO or improper food.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for all the replies.

Full workup - yes, done that after her diarrhea bouts and it was all good.

Habit - in fairness to him, he does not lay down on his stool and tries to avoid it. I even hear him whine every after accident. But not before - which could have given me the chance to bring him out when he really needs to go (even outside his potty schedule).

Crate size - could it be because the divider only covers the lower half of his crate. Ive attached here a picture. Sorry cant get the beagle out. That matting used to be his touch pad.

Exercise - uhmmmmmmm. Just realized he is not getting much of it since rainy season started. Might be it.

Overfeeding? - can this have this effect? Just now, I saw a coin under the weighing scale which affected its accuracy. Upon checking, I've been feeding him 100 grams per day more than what I should give. Don't know since when it's been there. But, no change in frequency of bowel. Still 2x a day. The schedule is just extremely altered and I dont see him having the ability, motivation or desire to hold it until I get him out. I think we're down to crate size, exercise, and overfeeding.

Help me with this please. I'm getting crazy.



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If your dog is having 2 bowel movements a day it should be pretty simple. Keep him out until he goes. Overfeeding can cause digestive upset but if his toilet habits have not changed then it is doubtful that this is it.

Am I reading your posts incorrectly or are you keeping him crated except to go to the bathroom?
 
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