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Trainer. Your parents need to pay the money and get a good trainer. If this behavior is starting at 6 months old, you are going to have real issues as he matures. You do not have to go to training every week. You can go every 3 weeks and still make good progress. And I highly advise you contact your breeder (who IS a member of this board and was just on here recently).

Forcing a dog that does not want to be petted is just a recipe for disaster. Dogs are not public property and strangers do not have a right to pet them. Your parents did not buy a dog that was born to be a social butterfly. It's just not his genetics. It's wrong to force that and really just kind of mean to do so because it will only cause him stress. He DOES need to be neutral around them. That should be your goal.

All of this is so far above your pay grade and putting this on you is not right or fair.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
You really need to find a trainer who can evaluate your dog in person. Advice on the internet are limited in that 1-you don't know what actually real life experience they have or don't have, 2- you may not be noticing or improperly interpreting what you are seeing.

Aggression is tricky and is not something you should be addressing via advice from the internet, the end result could be someone being badly bit. Your dog has now snapped at a child, that was a warning. Next time it may be a full on bite with the intent to do harm. You should also contact your puppy's breeder and alert them to the behaviors you are seeing, they may be able to recommend a trainer.


Trainer. Your parents need to pay the money and get a good trainer. If this behavior is starting at 6 months old, you are going to have real issues as he matures. You do not have to go to training every week. You can go every 3 weeks and still make good progress. And I highly advise you contact your breeder (who IS a member of this board and was just on here recently).

Forcing a dog that does not want to be petted is just a recipe for disaster. Dogs are not public property and strangers do not have a right to pet them. Your parents did not buy a dog that was born to be a social butterfly. It's just not his genetics. It's wrong to force that and really just kind of mean to do so because it will only cause him stress. He DOES need to be neutral around them. That should be your goal.

All of this is so far above your pay grade and putting this on you is not right or fair.
Thank you both for the advice. I am actively searching for a trainer. I'm waiting right now for a response from one I have contacted. My dad has contacted our older dog's breeder for trainer recommendations. (Let me clarify that my parents are definitely willing to pay if I can just find someone.) Yes, it will probably be every 2-3 weeks at a time if we work something out.
You're right about neutral. That's what I was hoping to get from him at the least.

The behavior sadly didn't start at 6 months. The thing is, with him being sick and all, that he didn't get the proper socialization he should have gotten. He should have been going everywhere when he was little. (Of course not overdoing it) It was my fault he didn't. Now I have to fix this problem. I do think I will be getting a good basket muzzle for safety precautions. It will take a bit if stress away if I can get him to like it. I will also be trying to take walks into town everyday. Hopefully that may do a bit if help.

What should I do when he starts growling as he approaches a person? (say someone is walking past) I've heard that the best thing to start with is turn and go in the other direction. Is that a good plan?

@Jax08 I am also calling that club you recommended today. What is the username of my breeder? I didn't know she was on here.
 

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That's not a reason. That's an excuse. My dogs were raised in the winter with almost no socialization and they do not behave like this. Don't get wrapped up in thinking early socialization is a cure all and this is all your fault. This is genetics and training. Neither of which you should have be held responsible for nor should you be responsible for fixing it solely on your own.

Did you call Carlos? The first trainer I recommended to you? He would be worth the 40 minute drive and I doubt he would charge a fortune. He actively works and titles his dogs in IGP. He trains with the club I told you to contact. I know him, his dogs and his methods.
 

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Hi,
I haven't been here for a while, but trouble has turned me in this direction. The three trainers we had in mind didn't work. One was sketchy, the other had unsure records, and the third was incredibly expensive. ( this isn't about trainers though)

And Kias' behavior is not getting better.

On Thursday our dog sitter (we were on vacation) was given a rude awakening. Kias loves her husband to death, and when she was with him (her husband) for a few minutes Kias got reactive very suddenly. The behavior was aimed in her direction. I'm thinking it was protectiveness, but I'm not sure. He did it again on Friday as they sat together watching TV. He was jumping around, barking, and getting upset overall when she got near her husband.
My parents think it has to do with the sounds. One time she was getting on a rocking chair (creaking) and the other time she was using a roller (sticky roller thing, it makes a weird sound) on him. But I don't think that's the case, or has anything at all to do with it.

I've no idea what to do other than correct the behavior as soon as I see it. But the weird thing is that he's never done it with us! Never ever has he been like that around any of my family.

Also he has taken a swipe at a kid who put his hand out to him. He was fine and wagging his tail until the kid reached his hand out. Then he backed away, and when the kid didn't remove his hand, Kias took a swipe. No harm done thankfully, but it happened so fast and in an area that I didn't want to make a commotion in. So I wasn't able to do anything but bring him out the door as fast as I could.

I know if that has to do with the hands, because he was fine until the hand came out, and it was obvious he was staring at the hand as he backed away. That time it was reactivity.

I really need some immediate suggestions on how to go about dealing with the hand thing and the protectiveness please. I'm hoping he won't do the protective thing again, but I'd rather be sure and get some suggestions for what to do when that happens.

If anyone has any suggestions or comments, please share them. Positive or Negative.

Thanks guys.

P.S. I know I'm not probably the most reputable person around here after the whole dominant dog thing I started and how I responded to the comments given. I was trying to do something I wasn't able to do and I made the wrong statement of myself. (More like I made a fool of myself) I'm trying to renew my reputation now and leave that behind. If there are any hard feelings in that direction, I apologize. I was getting to overly confident in this place, so I took a big break. Apologies are aimed at whoever responded to the Dominant Dog thread or any others that I made a fool of myself in.
Hi Kathrynil,

This is in response with the “sticky roller thing”. If you were referring to the roller tape lint remover, my pup goes berserk when I am using it. He hates it and “attacks” it and will grab it away from my hand. He hates anything that makes the similar sound and will go nuts when he hears me using something like it.
 

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Your dog's behavior has nothing to do with dominance. Dominant dogs are not fearful. You are simply seeing fear and insecurity and all you will be able to do is mask it and manage it. I wouldn't say your dog snapping was a warning. He was afraid and too afraid to actually bite because he wasn't put into a situation that he couldn't escape. He was displaying weak, passive defensive aggression and was trying to make the perceived threat go away.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Your dog's behavior has nothing to do with dominance. Dominant dogs are not fearful. You are simply seeing fear and insecurity and all you will be able to do is mask it and manage it. I wouldn't say your dog snapping was a warning. He was afraid and too afraid to actually bite because he wasn't put into a situation that he couldn't escape. He was displaying weak, passive defensive aggression and was trying to make the perceived threat go away.
I don't think he is dominant at all, and like I said, I want to get past the whole dominance thread. I didn't say anything about him being dominant in my original post. This has nothing to do with it.

I agree he was very fearful; I never should have brought him into a situation like that. (he was inside a building beside the door and there were like three people around me and him. It was a stressful situation for him, one that he's never experienced. I don't think he would have reacted that way if he had been calmer.) He is suspicious of things, and that was just the case at first, but the fearfulness was fully because the kid put his hand out. He wouldn't have snapped if the kid hadn't put his hand out.

Thanks for your help, hopefully I can get a trainer's help soon as well. I've got a couple trainers that I'm going to be setting up appointments with.

Hi Kathrynil,

This is in response with the “sticky roller thing”. If you were referring to the roller tape lint remover, my pup goes berserk when I am using it. He hates it and “attacks” it and will grab it away from my hand. He hates anything that makes the similar sound and will go nuts when he hears me using something like it.
Yah, I would understand. They do make a weird sound, those lint rollers. But I don't think that was the problem for Kias this time, since he had the same response when the lint roller wasn't present. I think it has to do with the dog sitter and her husband and maybe has some jealously(?) included, as someone said before.
But thanks for helping!
 

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As much as I love dogs, I would NEVER approach one I did not know just out of nowhere. No stranger should. I ask the owner if it's okay, and I offer a hand, palm up and say 'hi' in a friendly voice. If the dog chooses to respond, great. If not, it's okay, too. I remember being in Home Depot one time and talking to an apron I suddenly felt a bump on my rear. I turned around to see a German Shepherd looking up at me, so I greeted him or her. Nice dog. Another time I was in Petsmart and a young man was struggling with his GS trying to get it to sit. So I asked him if I could show him something and he agreed, so I greeted the dog and showed him the head up, rear down maneuver. No one had ever showed him that. But aggressively confront a strange dog - I'm not THAT crazy. And people who do should not be around dogs. Those are the ones that get bit. It is NOT the dog's fault some people think he's a toy.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
As much as I love dogs, I would NEVER approach one I did not know just out of nowhere. No stranger should. I ask the owner if it's okay, and I offer a hand, palm up and say 'hi' in a friendly voice. If the dog chooses to respond, great. If not, it's okay, too. I remember being in Home Depot one time and talking to an apron I suddenly felt a bump on my rear. I turned around to see a German Shepherd looking up at me, so I greeted him or her. Nice dog. Another time I was in Petsmart and a young man was struggling with his GS trying to get it to sit. So I asked him if I could show him something and he agreed, so I greeted the dog and showed him the head up, rear down maneuver. No one had ever showed him that. But aggressively confront a strange dog - I'm not THAT crazy. And people who do should not be around dogs. Those are the ones that get bit. It is NOT the dog's fault some people think he's a toy.
I totally agree. Well put.
 

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Buckelke,
She said the dog was fearful and stressed just being around strangers and afraid when a child put his hand out. A child should not be expected to have the same mindset as an adult with some experience with dogs.It may not be the dog's fault, but it is a significant temperament fault that the breed is plagued with. It might be possible to raise the dog's threshold for fear and stress, but under significant stress, the dog will revert to his genetic baseline. This is different than a dog that is not so genetically nervy and is able to work through truly stressful situations with good training.
 

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Chip - you are assuming all of this based on the description made by a young teen with very little experience. The dog may be nervy. The dog may also be misread. She's contacted good trainers in her area so maybe it's time to stop guessing and let her have the dog evaluated in person.
 

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It shouldn't be hard for a young teen to determine her dog was afraid over a child putting his hand out and not much guess work is involved.
 

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Hi,

I haven't been here for a while, but trouble has turned me in this direction. The three trainers we had in mind didn't work. One was sketchy, the other had unsure records, and the third was incredibly expensive. ( this isn't about trainers though)

And Kias' behavior is not getting better.

On Thursday our dog sitter (we were on vacation) was given a rude awakening. Kias loves her husband to death, and when she was with him (her husband) for a few minutes Kias got reactive very suddenly. The behavior was aimed in her direction. I'm thinking it was protectiveness, but I'm not sure. He did it again on Friday as they sat together watching TV. He was jumping around, barking, and getting upset overall when she got near her husband.
My parents think it has to do with the sounds. One time she was getting on a rocking chair (creaking) and the other time she was using a roller (sticky roller thing, it makes a weird sound) on him. But I don't think that's the case, or has anything at all to do with it.

I've no idea what to do other than correct the behavior as soon as I see it. But the weird thing is that he's never done it with us! Never ever has he been like that around any of my family.

Also he has taken a swipe at a kid who put his hand out to him. He was fine and wagging his tail until the kid reached his hand out. Then he backed away, and when the kid didn't remove his hand, Kias took a swipe. No harm done thankfully, but it happened so fast and in an area that I didn't want to make a commotion in. So I wasn't able to do anything but bring him out the door as fast as I could.

I know if that has to do with the hands, because he was fine until the hand came out, and it was obvious he was staring at the hand as he backed away. That time it was reactivity.

I really need some immediate suggestions on how to go about dealing with the hand thing and the protectiveness please. I'm hoping he won't do the protective thing again, but I'd rather be sure and get some suggestions for what to do when that happens.

If anyone has any suggestions or comments, please share them. Positive or Negative.

Thanks guys.

P.S. I know I'm not probably the most reputable person around here after the whole dominant dog thing I started and how I res
Hi,

I haven't been here for a while, but trouble has turned me in this direction. The three trainers we had in mind didn't work. One was sketchy, the other had unsure records, and the third was incredibly expensive. ( this isn't about trainers though)

And Kias' behavior is not getting better.

On Thursday our dog sitter (we were on vacation) was given a rude awakening. Kias loves her husband to death, and when she was with him (her husband) for a few minutes Kias got reactive very suddenly. The behavior was aimed in her direction. I'm thinking it was protectiveness, but I'm not sure. He did it again on Friday as they sat together watching TV. He was jumping around, barking, and getting upset overall when she got near her husband.
My parents think it has to do with the sounds. One time she was getting on a rocking chair (creaking) and the other time she was using a roller (sticky roller thing, it makes a weird sound) on him. But I don't think that's the case, or has anything at all to do with it.

I've no idea what to do other than correct the behavior as soon as I see it. But the weird thing is that he's never done it with us! Never ever has he been like that around any of my family.

Also he has taken a swipe at a kid who put his hand out to him. He was fine and wagging his tail until the kid reached his hand out. Then he backed away, and when the kid didn't remove his hand, Kias took a swipe. No harm done thankfully, but it happened so fast and in an area that I didn't want to make a commotion in. So I wasn't able to do anything but bring him out the door as fast as I could.

I know if that has to do with the hands, because he was fine until the hand came out, and it was obvious he was staring at the hand as he backed away. That time it was reactivity.

I really need some immediate suggestions on how to go about dealing with the hand thing and the protectiveness please. I'm hoping he won't do the protective thing again, but I'd rather be sure and get some suggestions for what to do when that happens.

If anyone has any suggestions or comments, please share them. Positive or Negative.

Thanks guys.

P.S. I know I'm not probably the most reputable person around here after the whole dominant dog thing I started and how I responded to the comments given. I was trying to do something I wasn't able to do and I made the wrong statement of myself. (More like I made a fool of myself) I'm trying to renew my reputation now and leave that behind. If there are any hard feelings in that direction, I apologize. I was getting to overly confident in this place, so I took a big break. Apologies are aimed at whoever responded to the Dominant Dog thread or any others that I made a fool of myself in.

I'm a dog trainer myself, so I'm going to ask a few questions :)

1. Was your dog a rescue?

2. Is there any history of some one striking the dog with their hand?
3. Has the dog been well socialized including being around small children?

3. This sounds like fear aggression response to me. Your dog attempted to flee the situation with the child, which is both a good and a bad thing. It could be a combination of a fear response to the hand it's self or the child in general.
4. Is your dog neutered?

As far as him feeling the need to "protect" the husband. That is also a fear based response, he feels no one is controlling the situation, so in attempt to reduce his anxiety he reacts. Scared dogs react. Aggressive dogs calculate an attack without provocation, keep in mind most dogs aren't aggressive, they are anxious and afraid, teeth are an incredible way in their mind to control a situation and get whatever it is the are fearful and anxious about to go away.


Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I'm a dog trainer myself, so I'm going to ask a few questions
557651


1. Was your dog a rescue?

2. Is there any history of some one striking the dog with their hand?
3. Has the dog been well socialized including being around small children?

3. This sounds like fear aggression response to me. Your dog attempted to flee the situation with the child, which is both a good and a bad thing. It could be a combination of a fear response to the hand it's self or the child in general.

4. Is your dog neutered?



As far as him feeling the need to "protect" the husband. That is also a fear based response, he feels no one is controlling the situation, so in attempt to reduce his anxiety he reacts. Scared dogs react. Aggressive dogs calculate an attack without provocation, keep in mind most dogs aren't aggressive, they are anxious and afraid, teeth are an incredible way in their mind to control a situation and get whatever it is the are fearful and anxious about to go away.





Hope this helps.
Thanks. Those are good questions to ask in a situation like this.
1. No
2. No.
3. No.
4(3). It was a fear response to the kid's hand. It was stressful situation he wasn't ready for.
5. No. He is much too young.
I do think it was fear, but I really don't know. I'm going to use a trainer to make sure. Thanks for helping!


It shouldn't be hard for a young teen to determine her dog was afraid over a child putting his hand out and not much guess work is involved.
It wasn't hard and I have determined it. But I may be completely wrong on everything. So I am going to get a personal evaluation from a trainer to be sure, then I can take action to address the problem with the trainer's help.

Lol, having raised kids and dogs of different temperaments, I can state with absolute confidence from experience, there are a lot of things you have to just show them. Not everything follows what you can quote from a textbook or article.
Heh, You just stated something I've thought too many times. This is one of the reasons I didn't want to buy the courses online. However, the reason I need a trainer is to determine if my theory is correct. (Mostly because I am not in the position to do so myself.)
 

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I think a good reputable trainer that knows how to address fear based aggression is a great idea! Just make sure they use positive reinforcement! Your dog needs to learn to associate the things that cause him anxiety with good things happening, such a treats or a favorite toy.

While looking for a trainer I suggest you start positive reinforcement training. Any time he meets some one new, adult, child give a a tasty treat, such a cooked chicken breast or something he doesn't usually get, this treat is to build that positive association between that delicious treat and this new person, have this new person throw him a piece, NOT hand it to him, just toss it to him, when he is eating the treat back it up with an enthusiastic good boy. The new person must NOT interact with him outside of throwing that treat! No pets, no eye contact, just throw him something tasty and keep going. When I'm working with these dogs I carry a treat bag with me or you can even put a sign on your door asking them to grab a treat before they come in. Breaking fear based aggression isn't easy and it takes time and ALOt of patience and repetition. Good luck with your fur kiddo! I'm here if you need anything.
 
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