[dobricans]

I tried to search similar topics and didn't find anything, i am freaking out right now. Please help!!!

safir refused his morning meal. When I got home he asked to go out and he pooped just mucousy liquid only.
When we came in I gave him a Pepto Bismol ( which his vet recommended in cases of upset stomach like this). 5 minutes later he vomited what I think was bile with blood in it. The vomit was a light red with many little bright red spots in it. I tried to look closely and it looks like blood. It's the first time this happened to.
A little history: he is 2 yrs old, has SIBO, which comes and goes, and once in a while he refuses to eat, and usually vomits bile about 5-6 hours after refusing a meal. So that is normal, but never did he vomit blood. He has been on Yams LR and 2 days ago started mixing in California Natural lamb and rice, on which he had previously been for a long time, with no incidents. I just really want to get him off Yams LR, one of the reason being that he hasn't been eating so well since they changed from Eukanuba LR to
Yams LR.
Should I be extremely worried about him vomiting blood and take him to the ER? I've never experienced this before. Please help!

 

[The Stig]

I play on the side of caution, especially in instances like these. I would immediately take her to my vet. Or ER as the next viable choice.

If I were you, I wouldn't wait around for answers.

Let us know what the prognosis is. Good luck.

 

[BowWowMeow]

Go to the vet right now. We can't diagnose something like this over the internet and you are absolutely better safe than sorry! I hope it's irritation and not anything else but I would go to the vet.

 

[WiscTiger]

This is one of the times where the Vet is my best friend. I don't run my dogs to the Vet for every little thing, BUT blood coming out of places where it shouldn't is always a call to the Vet and a Visit that day.

Let us know what the Vet said.

 

[kbigge]

Take him to the vet asap! Don't waste time typing online! (I mean this in the nicest possible way). Blood coming out of either end needs immediate Dr visit, IMO. Sending hugs and prayers - if this was Kodee, I'd be going apesh*t right now! Good luck & let us know what the vet says!

 

[3K9Mom]

Vomiting blood is often a symptom of poisoning or that your dog ate something that is causing great damage to the stomach. IF you're still around, get out of here.

Now!

Bring some of the vomitus with you, as you would any other bodily fluids sample. It will help the vet diagnose the problem.

 

[dobricans]

Ok, so after reading the first reply I called the vet and took off with Safir. I was seriously freaking out, and I didn't wait arround any longer to see the replies.
I picked up the plastic bag where I threw the paper towels used to clean his vomit got Safir and drove to the vet.
So, she did an thorough examination on him , took blood, fecal sample, and took a look at the vomitus I had brought with me. It was definitely blood mixed with bile. He didn't have any discomfort when she palpated his stomach. And he didn't seam to be lethargic anymore (he was a little after throwing up), he was actually happy to see everyone there. She thinks it's a stomach ulcer, possible from food allergies. Fecal sample was fine. We are waiting for the blood results. Meanwhile she gave him 2 injections: one to stop the vomiting, and one that coats the inside of his stomach with a protective layer. Also gave me some tablets to give him.

Poor Safir is exhausted. He ate just a little tonight and is now resting.
I think starting tommorrow I will cook for him light food (boiled chicken and rice, or sweet potatoes) until he gets better.

Thank you for all your replies, and if you have any other advice for me, please tell me what else I could do to help him feel better, because it breaks my heart to see him ill

 

[pupresq]

Glad to hear it's under control. My friend's dog showed similar symptoms it turned out their dog had gotten into rat poison(they think a dying rat came in their yard or there was something under their rental house) and was bleeding out internally. Tess survived but she almost didn't. Very scary. If they'd waited she would not have so I'm glad you played it safe.

Poor Safir. I hope he feels better soon!

 

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

Yikes. You did a good job! Glad he's doing better.

What tests can they do/will they do to confirm a stomach ulcer?

 

[WiscTiger]

I would have to go diving into paper records but one time DeeDee was give a medication that they give to humans for bleeding ulcers.

If the Vet suspected a food allergy, what is the protein source in the food you are feeding now? If it is Chicken then you might want to try something different and if it has rice then I would try potato or sweet potate. I think home cooking until you dog gets back on her paws is a good thing.

 

[dobricans]

He has been on Yams LR since they took Eukanuba LR off the market, and since then, I noticed he hasn't been eating so well. So I started to transition him to California Natural Chicken and Rice 2 days ago, which he's been on before, and he did well.
She said the only accurate way to find out exactly what's wrong is scoping, which was recommended for him before by her an 2 other vets, when he was ill and they never found anything wrong with him. But he got better after I started cooking for him, so we never had it done. We assumed it was the SIBO.
She is running some blood tests to rule out some things I guess. There was so much going on there that I didn't even ask what is the blood test for, but because of his history I think they are checking everything (Sc/CBC/T4 is what the invoice says).
I left $360 there. And even though I'm broke right now, it doesn't even matter. I just want him to be well. And if we have to, we will finally have the scoping done.

The medication they gave him now :
- Flagyl for his diarrhea
- Cerena - antiemetic
- Carafate - acts as a buffer by binding to HCl in
stomach and forming a viscous, protective barier at the ulcer
site, preventing further damage
- Pepcid AC- acid reducer

 

[The Stig]

Oh gosh, I hope it's not gonna turn out as an ulcer.

Give poor little Safir some soft tummy rubs for me. Poor dude.

You probably need a drink or something after that horrible fright he put you through!

Glad he is home with you and resting.

 

[ldpeterson]

Glad he is doing better. How scary!!

I guess the only way to diagnose an ulcer is an endoscopy??

Just a reminder ~ Don't forget to give the Carafate 2 Hours before or 1 hour after all other medications so it doesn't interfere with their absorbtion.

Hope he feels better soon!!

 

[JanH]

Just a thought - I know horses are much different than dogs - but a common remedy is offering baking soda. It's cheap, buffers the tummy and unless the vet has a problem with it interfering with meds might be something to try.
Know of a horse with ulcers - she got a tablespoon twice per day - seemed much more pleasant as she wasn't hurting, ate better and gained weight. Was a nervous type.

Dogs are a different thing in many ways obviously - but might be worth trying a teaspoon or so ??

 

[BowWowMeow]

My first gsd had a stomach ulcer from food allergies. I switched over to totally homemade food and ALL of her symptoms went away. This was many years ago before there were all these different food options.

You can use slippery elm to help heal the ulcer. I would actually use something like this: http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-GI-Support/999044.aspx

 

[ldpeterson]

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow

You can use slippery elm to help heal the ulcer. I would actually use something like this: http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-GI-Support/999044.aspx

Carafate works the same as slippery elm. A very very small amount of drug is actually absorbed through the body so side effects and overdosage are extremely rare and usually only occur in people with kidney disease.

Both drugs/herbs (Carafate and Slipper Elm) can block the absorbtion of other medications.

Just wanted to let OP know this so that she/he didn't use both at the same time!!

 

[dobricans]

Thank you Lisa for the reminder. Noted!

I love this forum, I learn so much here, and people here are so helpfull, and caring. Rx is my specialty, but when I don't know someting I always do my own research (Rx interactions, side efects...) before giving Safir any drugs. The vet did mention giving Carafate 30 min after al the other drugs, and the tech was nice enough to right it on the label

JanH, Lisa is right, Carafate works the same, and for now I will stick to the prescription. I don't want to add to much base either. Especially since he is given an acid reducer also. But I might use it in the future, if he has occasional stomach discomfort. Thanks for the tip.

Ruth, I know what you mean, it seams that Safir always gets better when I start cooking for him when he is ill. I want to cook for him, but I don't know if the time won't be a problem. And I have to look into how to supplement him again, because last time I cooked for him he was still growing, so the supplementation was different, and I remember I used to spend a lot of time on his meals. That is going to be tough now, since I don't really have that much time anymore. But I will definitely cook until he gets better.

Thank you all for your replies, and I will keep checking for tips.

 

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

I found this article on vomiting and regurgitation in general, with some info on ulcers. I guess they are not necessarily the same as in humans in terms of what they might be telling us. http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/clientED/vomiting.aspx SO there's that scary thought-which I hate to bring up-but always feel like things should be looked at carefully-I know the idea is to go with simple things, but I always want to know what if it's not the simple thing so that I am ready to push for more testing as needed and quickly.

http://heartspring.net/stomach_ulcer_symptoms.html There is Helicobacter pylori (a dog on IMOM gets that). http://www.petplace.com/dogs/helicobacter-infection-in-dogs/page1.aspx

More on ulcers: http://www.petplace.com/dogs/gastrointestinal-ulcerations-in-dogs/page1.aspx

Are they thinking ulcer or IBD? http://www.petplace.com/dogs/inflammatory-bowel-disease-in-dogs/page1.aspx

Sorry to be more confusing-and I hope you won't need to use these links and this will be an easy quick fix for you and Safir!

 

[3K9Mom]

Whew! Glad to hear that Safir is stabilized!

I like Carafate. If you aren't seeing relief shortly, there are options besides the Pepcid. Pepcid (and Tagament, which is often prescribed by regular vets as well), are H2 blockers. (Since you're familiar with pharmacology, I won't go into details.) I like Prilosec, which is a PPI. It was prescribed for my dog who had Gastric Reflux (GERD) by an veterinary internist. Slightly different disorder, yes. But if the Pepcid isn't working, keep that in mind. I know that money is tight, but this is one of those situations where if you find yourself returning to the vet often, you can actually easily save money by going to a specialist (an internist), who sees this sort of condition a lot.

Endoscopy gives clear answers whereas otherwise we're ultimately always kind of guessing. But if your dog is responding to the medicines (and doesn't suffer from side effects), then the guesses may be correct. But I wouldn't wait too long to scope. Again, that's why sometimes, the specialist is your cheapest course, because you aren't wasting a lot of money hanging out at the regular vet's office just to ultimately decide on the more expensive course of action anyhow.

Just FYI, http://www.acvim.org/index.aspx?id=244

Something to think about, Pepto has aspirin in it -- very hard on canine stomachs. (Did you mention it to your vet?) So you probably want to keep that for human use only in the future. It's ok in emergencies when dogs have truly explosive or continuous diarrhea; dehydration is a risk and you're far from a vet. But otherwise, it's not a great option for dogs.

I like cooking for dogs, if that's an option. I'd actually start an immediate food elimination diet, beginning with a protein source that doesn't appear in the kibbles you were feeding at all. Holler if you need info on how to do an elimination diet. You can also do a blood test for food allergies, but they're not perfect (you can get false positives); results take a while to come back; and your pup needs a simple diet to start anyhow. This is a great time for an elimination diet. Then you'll know what he can handle and you can try to find a commercial food that works for you ultimately, if that's what you want. Or you can go the route of cooking or raw, if that's what you want. But you'll have good solid info that you need to choose the direction that's best for you.

 

[pupresq]

Quote: He has been on Yams LR since they took Eukanuba LR off the market

Okay, maybe I'm just not familar with Yams dog food, but do you mean Iams LR? If so, that could be part of the problem. I've used donated Iams and Eukanuba for my fosters and actually have had pretty good success with them in spite of them not being the greatest foods out there but I've yet to see either agree with a GSD.

I've got my GSDs on Natural Balance Venison and Sweet Potato and all our allergy and irritable bowel issues have gone away. Not saying that particular diet is the way to go for you, but if your dog is eating Iams and having bowel issues, changing that is the first place I'd start.