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Discussion Starter #1
About 5 days ago, I noticed my 4 (going on 5mo) old pup walking funny. He has another canine pup he plays with (a 6mo old Boxer) I usually let him play around with when I see him and his owner on our daily walks. When the weird walk were noticed, at first I thought "well he probably banged himself up, he'll be fine soon". Keep in mind they play on grass, and really all they do is jump on each other. They don't really run or bite hard.

Anyway, the weird walk best I can describe it is a hip sway, and/or stiffness in his hind legs. Well I let it run its course for a day or two, but now I've noticed the infamous "bunny hop" when he does anything faster than jog and the hip sway has progressively been more noticeable. Weakness in his hind legs when he's standing still has also been noticed.

Lethargy has also been noted at times, although he's a pup... and as such still wants to play, but you can tell he's not as happy/excited as before. Appetite and water consumption are normal. He feeds on Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy (22lbs) and now is on the same formula but for LBP (LBP just came out so I got it). Before that he was on Wolf Cub by Solid Gold.

And it may be paranoia, but I think his front legs too are looking a little weak. He rarely just sits now... he's either walking or throwing himself on the floor.

Long story short, Monday I took him to the vet... and he said just by looking as his walk/run... and feeling his hips and moving his hind legs around... he's pretty sure it's HD. Although he also mentioned that he cannot confirm it is that until X-Rays are done... but by the looks and description I give him... he said it sounds a lot like it.

My pup just isn't the same anymore... you can see something is up with him. Any suggestions or ideas will be greatly appreciated! The news is definitely hard to hear... because I love my pup like he was a human son.

The breeder recommended putting him on diet for Senior Dogs.

X-Rays will be taken Saturday morning so I will be sure to update...

As far as exercise goes... what's recommended now that this is a huge possibility??
 

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HD and ED can both be corrected with surgery and the ones that aren't so severe can be given glucosamine. The ortho vet I went to said Riley can go on short walks. She also said swimming is great therapy.

We were to not encourage him to play. Like throwing a ball. She realized it's difficult to keep a large puppy doing nothing. She just said keep it to a minimum and encourage him to rest.

Riley may or may not have ED. Since he no longer limps and is doing well so far we opted not to do the $709.00 CT scan. If it gets bad again we will be getting it done.

I would get a second opinion from an ortho vet. When Riley had his x-rays done they gave them to us on a CD. It's very nice to just take the CD to get other opinions.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
HD and ED can both be corrected with surgery and the ones that aren't so severe can be given glucosamine. The ortho vet I went to said Riley can go on short walks. She also said swimming is great therapy.

We were to not encourage him to play. Like throwing a ball. She realized it's difficult to keep a large puppy doing nothing. She just said keep it to a minimum and encourage him to rest.

Riley may or may not have ED. Since he no longer limps and is doing well so far we opted not to do the $709.00 CT scan. If it gets bad again we will be getting it done.

I would get a second opinion from an ortho vet. When Riley had his x-rays done they gave them to us on a CD. It's very nice to just take the CD to get other opinions.

Glucosamine and Green Lipid Mussel were both suggested by the breeder too. I will hopefully make a trip to Petco later to get some.

Any way I can find a good reputable Ortho Vet? (e.g. Website, recommendations)
 

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Could be, could also be pano. Limiting calcium intake -- usually too high in regular puppy foods, and healthy supplements, of Vitamin C, glaucosomine and chondroiton, and may be some other stuff usually found in a specific supplement for joint-health can't hurt whether he has HD/ED or not. But your vet is right that you cannot tell for sure without x-rays. Pano also can be diagnosed from x-rays.

Pano is an inflamation of a membrane on the long bones that will happen when a puppy is growing. It is more common in males, and it is self-limiting, and will generally go away on its own, though using Albon (a type of wormer) can knock it out.

Hope it's pano. HD and ED are not death sentences, and may be present along with other conditions like pano, it is important that this is looked for because HD in particular may or may not require surgery. Pano generally goes away by itself and takes its symptoms with it.
 

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I would try not to panic too much yet, this rear end awkwardness can be common at this age especially for showline pups. Obviously you want to get it looked at just in case because sometimes puppies this young can have HD.

But here are some videos of my pup... This first one was him at four months old, you can see how bad his backend looks and how he's bunny hopping.


Now this is him again at close to 10 months old... He has strengthened up a lot back there and he no longer bunny hops. I will be doing X-rays on him though when he's a little bit older just to be sure. He eats raw and Orijen right now, he also gets joint supplements and is on something called k9 feed sentials. Sometimes they do just need a little time to mature.

 

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Discussion Starter #7
Could be, could also be pano. Limiting calcium intake -- usually too high in regular puppy foods, and healthy supplements, of Vitamin C, glaucosomine and chondroiton, and may be some other stuff usually found in a specific supplement for joint-health can't hurt whether he has HD/ED or not. But your vet is right that you cannot tell for sure without x-rays. Pano also can be diagnosed from x-rays.

Pano is an inflamation of a membrane on the long bones that will happen when a puppy is growing. It is more common in males, and it is self-limiting, and will generally go away on its own, though using Albon (a type of wormer) can knock it out.

Hope it's pano. HD and ED are not death sentences, and may be present along with other conditions like pano, it is important that this is looked for because HD in particular may or may not require surgery. Pano generally goes away by itself and takes its symptoms with it.


OMG, you really just gave me hope. Before your response, I've never heard of Pano before. Upon some quick research, they both seem to have some similar symptoms. Except that HD has the infamous "bunny hop" and from what I see, Pano does not... but my hope stays alive. The breeder advised glucoasime and green lipid mussel... so I think I'll start with that. HD, to me at least... is like a death sentence at his age. He's not even 5 months yet! And surgeries are waaaay out of my budget... plus I consider the fact he's still growing, which may affect the outcome/success of the surgery later down the line.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I would try not to panic too much yet, this rear end awkwardness can be common at this age especially for showline pups. Obviously you want to get it looked at just in case because sometimes puppies this young can have HD.

But here are some videos of my pup... This first one was him at four months old, you can see how bad his backend looks and how he's bunny hopping.

On The Trail - YouTube

Now this is him again at close to 10 months old... He has strengthened up a lot back there and he no longer bunny hops. I will be doing X-rays on him though when he's a little bit older just to be sure. He eats raw and Orijen right now, he also gets joint supplements and is on something called k9 feed sentials. Sometimes they do just need a little time to mature.

Sam and Ollie playing at the beach! - YouTube

Thank you for your input! I will be going to PetSmart today to acquire a supplement with Green Lipid Mussel and Glucosamine.

My pup has more of a hip sway than what your pup looks like he had. But same hop around and everything. I hope it's just a phase, and nothing to worry about.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Is there any way I can tell whether my pup has Pano? Or Hip Dysplasia?

Please read symptoms below.

Also, would it be advisable to change diets from Wilderness BB LBP? (Due to protein and calcium content?)
 

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x-rays.

Bunny-hopping can indicate hip dysplasia, or not. Some puppies do this, especially youngsters. Bunny hopping as the puppy gets older is more concerning.
 

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Is there any way I can tell whether my pup has Pano? Or Hip Dysplasia?

Please read symptoms below.

Also, would it be advisable to change diets from Wilderness BB LBP? (Due to protein and calcium content?)
Yes, with x-rays. When my dog was suspected of having pano. I was told to feed him adult or senior dog food. I switched him to BB adult, with the grain. I was advised a puppy should not be on grain free dog food.
 

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Yes, with x-rays. When my dog was suspected of having pano. I was told to feed him adult or senior dog food. I switched him to BB adult, with the grain. I was advised a puppy should not be on grain free dog food.

My vet hasn't recommended me anything yet, but the breeder has recommended a ton of things such as Adult or Senior formulated food and a list of supplements.

So far I haven't done the diet change, but today I have started him on a supplement called:

Nutri-Vet Stage 3 Joint
Nutri-Vet Nutritionals Veterinarian Strength Hip & Joint Maximum at PETCO
 

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Puppies go through all kinds of awkward stages. Panosteitis is very common in GSD puppies especially in the front legs, but also can happen in the rear too. If it will help you feel better, then get the radiographs for sure so you don't have to keep wondering.
 

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I use that same brand from nutri-vet, but this formula.

 

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Some of what's good for reducing the intensity of Pano, and clearing it up faster, is also good for HD. When my 1-year-old had Pano 10 years ago, the holistic vet recommended:

Ester-C
Fish oil (a BIG dose -- for antiinflammatory effect)
Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM
(all were human grade supplements -- she actually told me to go to Trader Joe's -- check with your vet for doseage).

Now, my senior arthritic dog with hip issues is on....the same supplements, and a few more.


BTW, for my pup, it took about a week to kick in, but it dramatically lessened the pain and the duration of Pano for each leg (he played and walked with a slight hitch, but remained quite active and lively); each leg lasted just a couple of weeks (instead of 6 or so weeks that you sometimes hear).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
This is him doing the "bunny hop" the week of fathers day. Is it normal for a 5mo old pup to do that? if so, when do they out grow it?

 

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His rear end does look really awkward. Personally, I'd xray (I'm also a very impatient person that always wants answers right away :rolleyes:). One simple xray really isn't that expensive or that hard on the dog... especially if it's not for OFA. Without x-rays, it's super hard to say if it is HD. He could have something else going on. He's a little too old for just being a "clumsy" rear ended puppy though. You see more of that around 2 & 3 months. 4 months is when they usually start being a little more aware of themselves. So I don't think the bunny hopping is due to age. I could be wrong though, hard to tell without seeing the dog.

I have 2 dogs with HD. Duke has moderate HD, and Zira's in unknown on the extent currently, but as a puppy it was leading to probably severe. We got Duke at 2 years old and he really didn't show too many signs at first. He was xrayed on April 29th, which showed moderate HD. Zira has showed signs since she was 4 months old. What concerns me is your pup reminds me very much of her at that age. I thought it was puppy clumsiness too and pushed it off for many months. Unfortunately, I don't have any videos of her moving as a pup (lack of a camera with video options)... but, I do have a video of both Duke and Zira running around with each other the day they first met. You can see how both bunny hop... Zira is definitely much more defined as Duke's.

February 7, 2012 11:58 AM - YouTube

With management, both my dogs are doing fine. We can't go overboard with them, or do anything that strains their back ends.... but they are still able to be pets and enjoy life. We have them on Acana (Orijen substituted occasionally), and supplements to support their joints.

I'm not trying to scare you or anything.... he may not even have HD and I absolutely can't diagnose your dog on an online forum with one video posted. So don't take this as 100% fact. However, within the next year or so I'd definitely look into xraying the dog. For now, talk with your vet, start him on some supplements and good kibble with the right balance of nutrition and vitamins (if he's not already on one), and be careful with his activity. It's good to exercise them, but try to find something without too much stress on the hip joints..... like swimming. Swimming is great!

Good luck with your pup! And remember, there's a lot of things that are NOT a death sentence these days thanks to science and the advancement of veterinary procedures. I'm glad to see the pup has an owner that cares and actually pays attention to their dog's health. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I was very dissatisfied with my Vets answer. Pretty much what it came down to was it "looks" like early stages of HD, but is treating it as such.

What do you guys think? This is the best picture I could take that kinda shows it clearly. I'll work on a better picture soon.
 

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Terrible x-ray. The positioning isn't going to give you clear answer, but they don't look that bad to me. The right side (left side of x-ray) might be a problem though, but the x-ray is so bad, it's hard to tell.

With a better x-ray and better positioning, they might actually be good hips.
 

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use the supplements advised here, keep your dog calm and taking it easy. ee how the pup feels in about 2 weeks and then decide if further action is needed.
 
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