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Does anyone have any articles about the use of pinch collars and how they can benefit trainers, help with obedience etc.? Anything really.

I'm on another forum and am trying to defend the use of a pinch collar on my dog. But I don't have anything to back up what I'm saying and am beginning to get angry with them as they just can't understand. From what they say, you'd think I was a mean heartless owner who doesn't give a **** about their dog. :mad: It's beginning to get to me.
 

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I have found that folks "generally" in the United Kingdom view this breed as a pet dog as opposed to a working dog which it is. Many pet people view the pinch collar as the antichrist. If you go to a working dog forum you would find a completely different view of this tool. Don't try to convert them....you won't....lol, if it works for you, use it and go about your business. Jmo
 

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Agree with cliffson 1, do what works for you.
 

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Does anyone have any articles about the use of pinch collars and how they can benefit trainers, help with obedience etc.? Anything really.

I'm on another forum and am trying to defend the use of a pinch collar on my dog. But I don't have anything to back up what I'm saying and am beginning to get angry with them as they just can't understand. From what they say, you'd think I was a mean heartless owner who doesn't give a **** about their dog. :mad: It's beginning to get to me.
That's about standard for a UK forum. You'll get a clique who haven't ever seen a prong collar in person and certainly haven't seen one used on a dog...and they all have an opinion that they'll state as "fact", when these "facts" are simply regurgitated arguments they've read on other forums and Facebook pages also against prong collars. If you try and argue with them they'll beat you down with stupidity and eventually ban you.

In short, they don't know any better because they don't know the equipment or what they're talking about, but they'll still have a lot to say. Best bet is to just ignore them, don't try and defend the collar because they won't be interested, and see for yourself the effect on the dog, that's all the proof you'll need of the equipments effectiveness.
 

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That's about standard for a UK forum. You'll get a clique who haven't ever seen a prong collar in person and certainly haven't seen one used on a dog...and they all have an opinion that they'll state as "fact", when these "facts" are simply regurgitated arguments they've read on other forums and Facebook pages also against prong collars. If you try and argue with them they'll beat you down with stupidity and eventually ban you.

In short, they don't know any better because they don't know the equipment or what they're talking about, but they'll still have a lot to say. Best bet is to just ignore them, don't try and defend the collar because they won't be interested, and see for yourself the effect on the dog, that's all the proof you'll need of the equipments effectiveness.
I think this is rather offensive to be honest. I'm not a member of a UK forum, but I am Irish and in Ireland prong collars are almost non-existent, yet we manage to walk our dogs without them, including GSDs and a variety of high-drive breeds. It may come as a shock to many people, but electronic collars and prongs ARE considered barbaric here, using pain/discomfort to teach a dog is NOT what many of us consider good training.
I don't- as a rule- involve myself in such debates or disputes, but to fob off other forums and indeed cultures as if we 'don't know what we're talking about' is plain rude and a little short-sighted. Use whatever tool you see fit by all accounts, but try not to dismiss us who travel a different path.
 

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I think this is rather offensive to be honest. I'm not a member of a UK forum, but I am Irish and in Ireland prong collars are almost non-existent, yet we manage to walk our dogs without them, including GSDs and a variety of high-drive breeds. It may come as a shock to many people, but electronic collars and prongs ARE considered barbaric here, using pain/discomfort to teach a dog is NOT what many of us consider good training.
I don't- as a rule- involve myself in such debates or disputes, but to fob off other forums and indeed cultures as if we 'don't know what we're talking about' is plain rude and a little short-sighted. Use whatever tool you see fit by all accounts, but try not to dismiss us who travel a different path.
Your post is just reinforcing what he said. He isn't dismissing your decision to not use a prong collar. He is dismissing the stupidity behind making judgements on someone else's training method when there is no experience or actual knowledge. If your dog is effectively trained without using one, that is great. I have been told that if you use a prong collar in Europe you risk getting produce and eggs thrown at you. I would like you try to defend that as not barbaric, short-sighted, and rude. And that was posted by someone who lived in Europe.

"Use whatever tool you see fit by all accounts, but try not to dismiss us who travel a different path."

I believe that is exactly the point the previous post was trying to make that you were criticizing. No one is trying to say not using a prong collar is wrong, just that people should 'try not to dismiss us who travel a different path.'
 

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Your post is just reinforcing what he said. He isn't dismissing your decision to not use a prong collar. He is dismissing the stupidity behind making judgements on someone else's training method when there is no experience or actual knowledge. If your dog is effectively trained without using one, that is great. I have been told that if you use a prong collar in Europe you risk getting produce and eggs thrown at you. I would like you try to defend that as not barbaric, short-sighted, and rude. And that was posted by someone who lived in Europe.

"Use whatever tool you see fit by all accounts, but try not to dismiss us who travel a different path."

I believe that is exactly the point the previous post was trying to make that you were criticizing. No one is trying to say not using a prong collar is wrong, just that people should 'try not to dismiss us who travel a different path.'
I was replying to the comment previous to mine, not to the original OP. Why would I defend people who throw eggs or abuse people? Indeed, why need I defend anything I have said, nor what other people might hypothetically do? I'm not telling you not to use a prong collar, only that is it not considered a training tool here in Europe and thus -rightly or wrongly- it is frowned upon.
 

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My point is that by your own definition, your culture is short-sighted and rude for dismissing the prong collar as a training tool. It's completely hypocritical logic. You are upset that your culture's view on proper training is being judged for being judgemental.

No one here is upset that people in Europe choose not to use prong collars on their own dogs. They are upset that those people feel they can cast judgement on people that do without any experience or knowledge to support their belief. Moreso, not that they cast judgement, but that they insist on being so vocal about it.
 

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My point is that by your own definition, your culture is short-sighted and rude for dismissing the prong collar as a training tool. It's completely hypocritical logic. You are upset that your culture's view on proper training is being judged for being judgemental.

No one here is upset that people in Europe choose not to use prong collars on their own dogs. They are upset that those people feel they can cast judgement on people that do without any experience or knowledge to support their belief. Moreso, not that they cast judgement, but that they insist on being so vocal about it.
No, not by my own definition at all, I make no definition; I am happy to say that I am not 'upset' should people chose to use different tools to train their animals, neither am I vocal on the subject- my point is on a European forum one cannot be shocked or surprised if people are a little cool about shock collars or pinch collars as they are not considered appropriate tools here, in much the same way as I don't expect to gain much traction here on a mostly American blog where such tools are commonplace.
 

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This is my last post on this. What you just said is exactly the same point the post that offended you was trying to make. That post did also refer to it as stupidity, which, given that it is an opinion based on no knowledge, science, or experience with the device in question, I would agree.

I have used a prong collar only briefly so far after watching videos and reading up on proper use. I didn't use any real corrections other than it being worn, and my dog was much more well behaved, which to me is not just a convenience for going on walks, it's a safety issue. She has had issues with lunging at bikers and other dogs in excitement, and while I have also been working on distractions and positive reinforcement for proper behavior, I can't always control when a bike will come around a bend in the trail and thereby have enough time to distract her and treat her for being calm around a bike.

From everything I have looked at and been told, a properly fitted prong collar is less likely to cause damage than even a nylon collar due to the pressure distribution. It should be a given, though, that a prong collar isn't meant to be an easy fix. It is simply a tool, which has been frequently expressed, and it is not meant for every dog. In fact, I know some dogs can just become more amped up from it.

I did like this article, though it is really more of a blog, than anything:
Gentle Leader vs. pinch collar - ThatMutt.com: A Dog Blog
 

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It may come as a shock to many people, but electronic collars and prongs ARE considered barbaric here, using pain/discomfort to teach a dog is NOT what many of us consider good training.
No, my statement is very accurate and in a way you're proving the point too.

It may come as a shock to you to know we regularly sell prong collars to customers in Ireland and have been doing so in increasing numbers for years, you're trying to speak for everyone as though you know what the masses think, but how well do you really know their views?

As for the pain/discomfort quip, do people in Ireland not use flat collars, head collars, slip collars/leads or restrictive harnesses? They all have potential to and frequently do cause pain and discomfort, more people than you'd believe ignore actual pain and stress and even try to train while the dog is in either or both using this equipment. Simple facts, no suprises here.


my point is on a European forum one cannot be shocked or surprised if people are a little cool about shock collars or pinch collars as they are not considered appropriate tools here, in much the same way as I don't expect to gain much traction here on a mostly American blog where such tools are commonplace.
So, armed with a basic knowledge of a prong collar from t'interweb you're now capable of a judgement of their use and users, and speak for the general dog owning population?

Prong collars are sold in pet shops all across the continent. Pet shops...
The oldest prong collar in the world is in a museum in England, and the patent for the modern production of collars was in the late 19th century in Germany, they're more commonplace in Europe than you'd believe.
What leads people not to believe this is an almost monopolistic takeover of badly informed and very gulliable forum posters on UK forums and Facebook who try to prove to each other on a regular basis just how far up Victoria Stillwells bum they can get and decry everything else as the evil work of Cesar Millan and therefore torture. That's offensive, supressing valid information and open discussion, it's not at all representitive of the dog owning population at large.


it is not considered a training tool here in Europe and thus -rightly or wrongly- it is frowned upon.
Again, you'll find it is considered a training tool here in Europe, what else could it possibly be?


We can all generalise, but sometimes seeing only one side of the story distorts the perception of "everybody".

I'd be confident to estimate that if you go through every forum in the UK over the last 8 years, not just dogs but cats, birds, tropical fish, knitting clubs, washing machine repairs even, and count up everyone who's been against the use of prong collars....... add a zero or maybe even two to the end of that number PER PERSON and that's nearer to how many people bought a prong collar over the same time. I tend to get a different perception ;)
 

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