[Beezer]

Hi there, new here and hate this type of post to be my first but here goes.

we have a almost 4yo GSD Phoebe, she recently has gotten scarily aggressive toward our other dog, a Corgi. Out of nowhere she will pin him to the ground and attack him. These 2 have lived together for 2 years without incident they loved eachother. The attacks are so random and have come about so recently I believe there is a medical reason to blame. She has been on phenylpropanolamine for quite awhile now and I am pretty sure soon after that's when the aggression began to show itself. I've researched a bit and have seen a fe have had similar occurences with their dogs, was wondering if anyone else had an opinion on it. She is scheduled to go in to the vet and we are going to talk with the vet about this and other causes of sudden aggression but if anyone has any thoughts on the matter I would love to hear them. Rest assured as well we are keeping these 2 separated until we can figure this out. We have owned dogs for over 20 years, most of them shepherds and have never encountered behavior this baffling.

ETA: I apologize for any spelling errors, typing from my phone!

 

[Zoeys mom]

I would also have her thyroid looked at as hypothyroidism can cause aggression as well. I don't know much about the drug she is on or what it is even used for but maybe trying an alternative medication as a test wouldn't be a bad idea

 

[Jax08]

Thyroid? Are your dogs spayed/neutered?

What is phenylpropanolamine? What is it used for?

 

[krystyne73]

My GSD was on that for a little while for incontinence (PPA), the vet said it was better than the newer Proin, but the PPA wasn't being sold any longer (it was a little confusing on the details, he talks fast)
she was on it once a week for a month. I don't recall her being nasty, but she is always trying to dominate the other dogs so its hard to say. Her incontinence stopped though we have to do it every 6 months or so.
How long has your dog been on it? My vet was very clear one time a week for a short period only. But I didn't ask why

 

[BowWowMeow]

Looks like that is a side effect in people so I'd say it's a good guess. Are you using this for spay incontinence? There are much safer options. My first gsd had spay incontinence that started when she was about 3 years old.

Check out these options for spay incontinence: Only Natural Pet Store - Dogs Cats Holistic Supplies Products Food Treats Vitamins Medicine Supplements

Be sure to read the reviews.

 

[Castlemaid]

My mixed breed developed spay incontinence, and was put on the synthetic estrogen which did not work for her. The other option was PPA, and after researching it, I decided to NOT medicate and live with the leakage. So instead, I got a rug cleaner, and did a lot of laundry.

I am assuming as others that your girl is on PPA for incontinence, not sure if it is used for any other reason?
PPA works by putting the body under stress, pushing the autonomic nervous system towards the "fight or flight" platform, upping blood pressure, increasing heart-rate, and making the whole body tense (ready to react to a threat) - including tightening the bladder sphincter muscles. Though through my research I have heard of many users who found that their dogs did not have any side-effects, some did report that their dog was "grumpy" on it. Other side effects of long-term PPA use will affect the heart (well, no wonder!).

I think you are on the right path if you feel that these incidents of aggressive outburst are related to the PPA - it could very well be. If you have not tried the estrogen replacement, it wouldn't hurt to try it and see if that works for you. There are also natural alternatives to synthetic estrogen that I have heard good things about, but I have not tried them myself. Estrogen plays a role in maintaining the tightness of the bladder sphincter muscles, and incontinence can develop when a female is spayed and the level of estrogen in their body drops dramatically.

As it turned out, the incontinence just about went away after I switched Keeta over to a completely raw diet. There is the occassional leaking incident, but it went from multiple daily incidents, to maybe one, or two, incidents a month. As soon as I re-introduce kibble (even grain-free) or canned dog or cat food in Keeta's diet, the leaking starts up again, even after only one or two meals of non-raw foods.

So there are a few things you could try to see if Phoebe's change in behaviour is due to the PPA, and still keep her incontinence under control:

- Try the synthetic estrogen replacement
- Or the holistic alternatives,
- Or try cutting out all kibbles, grains, cooked foods and put her on a raw diet.

Good luck, I hope you can figure this out!

 

[arycrest]

Too took PPA for an extended period of time without problems. I couldn't find aggression as a side effect but I guess it doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Like someone mentioned, have her thyroid checked.

 

[Beezer]

Thanks for the replies!

Yes, she's on the PPA for incontinence, my mother got out the paperwork from her vet visits, she's been on it since July so she's been on it for 6 months. She's supposed to get 1 pill 2x day, we've stopped her with it as of a few days ago. She has a appointment to see the vet so hopefully we can get some answers!

It seems like most animals don't have a problem with it but Phoebe seems to be very sensitive to drugs, she is naturally pretty neurotic so using a stimulant can't be a good idea! It does seem like she is pretty sensitive to drugs, she was on Prozac for a time to try and help her calm down but it had the opposite affect on her and wound her up even more.

Also thanks for the alternative remedies, the whole family is in agreement, we'll deal with the leakage, we just want our dog back!

 

[Jax08]

hmm...our oldest boxer was on something for incontinence a few years ago. We ran out of meds once and she didn't have any problems so we kept her off of it. I would try the alternative meds, or take her off the med completely, to see how she acts. If her aggression stops, you found the problem. If the PPA makes a body stressed and tense...well...I"m pretty mean when I'm tense and stressed.

 

[krystyne73]

wow Beezer thats a lot since July. It might be the cause, I searched it online and aggression is a side effect listed.
Wonder why your vet put her on it 2x daily and my vet said only once a week? Its a big difference in dosage.
Good luck! so far it was the only thing that worked for Meika.

 

[Beezer]

wow Beezer thats a lot since July. It might be the cause, I searched it online and aggression is a side effect listed.
Wonder why your vet put her on it 2x daily and my vet said only once a week? Its a big difference in dosage.
Good luck! so far it was the only thing that worked for Meika.

I know, talk about 2 completely different amounts for prescriptions! It does work really well for her but if turning her into a monster is what it does to her, she can go ahead and wet the bed!

 

[valb]

My old girl was on it for 7 years with nary a problem of any kind.
So it is possible... but I have to question the dosing, too. Might
there have been some type of "loading" dose? I don't recall
exactly what my dog was allowed, but I do know that I was able
(with vet approval) to cut her waaaay back, for many years.
And towards the end, she was still only up to one per day.

And last I checked, it was still available for dogs, just not humans
any more.

 

[Beezer]

I'm not sure about the dosing, my mother was the one who took her in last year and she gives her the medication so I'll ask her. We're also going to see the vet who prescribed it on Wednesday so we'll know more then!

Been doing a lot of research on it and just a basic google search with Proin aggression turns up a lot of people with similar problems. It looks like it's a hit or miss thing, most dogs are fine but some have issues with it. Putting a dog with neurotic tendencies on a drug that is said to cause a fight or flight response maybe isn't such a good idea. :/

 

[Jax08]

Now that you mention it...Banshee's was only 1 X per week also. I would have some serious questions for your vet.