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Discussion Starter #1
First, things are going great! The IPO club is like an hour and half away from me, and technically I can only go every other Saturday since I have my kids every other weekend. But, I've been having so much fun that I grab my oldest daughter, bring her with, and shell out for a sitter for my boys. Won't be able to do that long term financially, but the fundamentals are at that stage where they are coming together so well I hate to miss.

I definitely started on the back foot with this dog. I have never done any sport (always had trained dogs in the manners and listening department, but never the sport stuff). Valor was 9 months old when we started and had some typical for his lines suspicion. He will always have that in him, but it is very controlled now and his confidence is going up so nicely with age (he is almost a year) and training. We have learned everything out of order really..but it is coming together now.

My club has trials coming up. We are not old enough for BH yet, but I will be going to watch and learn.

He has the on leash BH pattern down. We haven't tried off leash yet, but I am pretty optimistic. His long down is GREAT. Sit and down in motion, good. Fuss is good, his ass end no longer kicks out like a race car drafting lol That was stuff I had to fix with my body language. And I had to lose the sunglasses even though I HATE squinting. It was contributing to forging.

So when i say he has the BH pattern down, I mean he knows it, but we are still using tug reward. Mostly just drop and possession at this point(not me playing hard with him). We can go all the way down field in both longer paced fuss segments, but he does still get jackpot rewards. Any advice on good ways/times to phase out the tug? Actually any advice on timing rewards and phasing out would be welcome.

He has to at least October maybe November before we get to try for BH. In the meantime in addition to what we have to do for BH we are practicing protection and this week we will start him on tracking.

He does great on bite work. We are just starting blinds and long bites. He is completely neutral to gunfire.

Oh another question- what does it mean when the dog wants to go at the helper even after the sleeve is off? Like, he "wins" the sleeve and then outs nicely for me. After he outs he wants to go at the helper before I kick it back to helper and before he puts the sleeve back on and before the helper (IDK the right terminology) postures? There was some discussion over that and would love other independent opinions/experiences with that.

Thanks all! Just got learned up on some new to me video editing software, but I only have cell phone video to work with. Going to bring the big cameras next weekend and set them up, and see if I can make cool videos :)
 

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Do you want to phase it out as in remove it from sight or not have it on you to reward at all?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well, his BH is still 5or 6 months away. So I was thinking out of view, followed by not on my person. That was basically my question, what is the preferred timeline for phasing out of sight thewn off your body?
 

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You can stop luring with food or toy as soon as possible. It starts becoming a random reward system. At first you would pop out the reward fairly quickly. Then at certain times (like during the gun fire or during the group). Then the toy becomes hidden for far longer stretches and the rewards become much more random, but the toy is never totally removed from training. If done correctly, the drive will increase in anticipation of the toy being popped out. On trial day the toy just isn't there, but the dog won't know that and will expect it and build and build throughout the routine.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That makes sense, thanks all. The more I think about it, I even see established PD dogs get their rewards for finding things or getting the bad guy. So pretty much just jackpot, alternate sudden reward in motion, reward when he sits properly when I stop..he never knows when it is coming, but it should always come when he is either in good motion or good position (when he sits when I stop walking, etc) And I am also thinking not to reward when I return to him after the down and sit in motion, but wait until he moves with me again?

Here is an example of us training BH pattern. Two things I noticed when I watched this ( I think videoing yourself is a very valuable thing)..I need to keep more slack in the lead, and my original sit position was not great.


There are a few videos on my channel, wanted to warn you about the one that says Stuart's weekend. My BF HAD to chop wood for the firepit despite the Guiness. Now has about a 1/4 inch less on the top of his finger. I did a humorous story board with pics from the day and the last pic is of his finger with a gel ball on it after the injury. I did sound effects and all lol Anyway, did not want to sniper anyone with a bloody finger pic.
 

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Do you say "fuss" as you start to move or "fuss" and then move? You move and then he moves which is why I am asking. His starts are lagging. He should be anticipating your step forward (start with your left when heeling).



Doesn't hurt to reward him when he is in the sit position instead of heeling first before rewarding and don't always do the full 15 paces before going back to reward . You may do both already. The goal of the in-motions is both accuracy and speed.
 

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Do you say "fuss" as you start to move or "fuss" and then move? You move and then he moves which is why I am asking. His starts are lagging. He should be anticipating your step forward (start with your left when heeling).



Doesn't hurt to reward him when he is in the sit position instead of heeling first before rewarding and don't always do the full 15 paces before going back to reward . You may do both already. The goal of the in-motions is both accuracy and speed.
The starting with your left foot is an overlooked 'cheat' in CKC obedience. You aren't allowed to give a double command but no one says you cannot condition your dogs to a body cue. When I was competing in obedience all of my dogs were taught to move as soon as I bent my left knee, so for the stay I walked away starting with my right.
 

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Be careful with using the leash to guide him into positions and turning your body like that. Try to avoid that type of help. If you're going to stop, stop, without changing you're direction. When you start, start without hesitation. Foos, pause a second, move like you mean it. I reward for holding position a lot more then I reward after releasing from the position.
 

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I say fuss, I think, as I am starting to move. I may be off timing with that. Thanks for pointing it out, I will pay attention that that today!

Say "fuss" and then step out.
 

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The starting with your left foot is an overlooked 'cheat' in CKC obedience. You aren't allowed to give a double command but no one says you cannot condition your dogs to a body cue. When I was competing in obedience all of my dogs were taught to move as soon as I bent my left knee, so for the stay I walked away starting with my right.

No "cheat", just correct footwork. ;) When moving forward with the dog start on the left foot. When leaving the dog move out on the right. Same in the "out of motions" in IPO. Command as the left hits the ground while continuing to move forward with the right.
 

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With the motion exercises, think about it like its an interruption of the movement. Like another capping exercise. You generally get speed through motivation and working at a little quicker pace. A lot of quick reps, quick rewards. So that's one reason for breaking things into smaller pieces and concentrating on that one thing. So like with the sit out of motion, you'll see people work just that while moving around randomly, not in heel position. You phase that in over time.

For your BH, think about all the other pieces too. The traffic portion, scanning his chip with people around. Moving around people in that environment. How you'll check in with another dog. How you'll warm him up before you walk on the field. practice how you're going to remove and then re leash him. Details like that can be where you start having problems. Know the routine so you don't get confused, and when you heel to the long down, make sure you heel him. Keep the ob, don't let that be a casual stroll.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks! I got a subscription to the Dave Kroyer videos too. They are great.

This guy, I started him wrong on nearly everything sports related. He has been a good sport though.

The traffic portion is good. I take him out and about a lot. He didn't react to a group circling him and then walking in on him after I left him off lead. His default is "suspicious" which he has decided to just ignore it if he isn't allowed to boom at it. Same with dogs.

We are....working...on the microchip. He can ignore, but when someone is bending over and touching him he looks like he wants to lunge at their head. Once he gets to know someone they could paint his toes for all he cares. But the judge will be brand new to him. He allows it fine now at our club, but it is a small club so I dont know if he is allowing it because he is familiar with them, or if the training is desensitizing him.

It's not the type of thing you ask random strangers at the park to do for you. Here, rub this taped up cheese grater we made to look like a scanner all over my dogs neck and back, see if he lets you.
 

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It's on the field we go to every week and everyone will be there. I am hoping the familiarity of turf and the fact he is used to it getting done there will help, even if it is a new to him person.
 

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Starting next year, and might happen sooner with foreign judges, the judge will be doing all of the scanning. You can hold his head or collar so he can't swing around on anyone.
 
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