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Discussion Starter #1
I am going to try to get a title leg on Tori this weekend, even though she is NOT ready, and am going to do a CGC with Arwen at the show that SHOULD be a piece of cake -- she's titled and well behaved and I couldn't see taking her to CGC classes, when all she needs is the test, so anyway I took them to PetsMart to be groomed.

While I was waiting for them to be done, I talked to their trainer for a few minutes. She asked me if I had my dogs and well, I had to admit they were there even though Tori is kind of embarrassing the way she pulls and jumps and who am I trying to kid? If she gets a title leg on Saturday I will probably feint.

So later I am trying to watch the grooming and the trainer brings her class along to the back where I am. (Two toy dogs and their enterouge. She asks another employee to do a greet.

Both toys had a jumping up problem. The young trainer's solution was to shake a can of metallic items. She was also doing the clicker thing with them. The dogs must be super intelligent because I was majorly confused. She was clicking which queued the dogs to jump up on the person, then she would rattle away and the dog would jump down. After going to the one dog, then the other then back to the other and then back again, she exclaimed "well, there is definitely progress."

I was flabbergasted and turned around to look at the grooming to not be rude. I now that people swear by clickers and I know people use penny cans, but one in each hand????

I am sorry, but me and the toys felt that the whole thing was rather annoying. I know that the owners paid better than $120 for this training. I think that getting the dog groomed was a better value.

Definitely progress!!!!

Going up to pay for my grooming, I saw a woman's dog lift his leg on a display. I said out loud, "You dog is leaking, clean it up" but not really for her to hear me. She may have. The woman turned, noticed the dog and the urine, turned to me and said "I am sorry he just peed." I looked back. She said again, "he went there." I said, I am not an employee, but there is an oops station right over there.

She walked over there, turned with out taking a paper towel or anything and left with her dog. Amazing!!! Whatever.

Ok, I am done. I just haven't been there for quite a while.
 

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I went there on Sunday and was watching someone groom a small(not a pup) GSD in the self serve area. The dog was throwing a fit, barking and bucking while she was blow drying him, Hair was flying all over the place and she didn't have any control over the poor dog, he was muzzled and tied tight to the wall. I saw her give him a slam into the brick wall at least two times. Can anyone use the self serve wash and do the groomers use these as well? I was really disturbed by what I saw, but not sure if it was the "owner" or groomer. Last week we stopped in to get a toy for Kacies Gotcha day present and there was a nutro rep trying to sell me greenies. I told her I feed raw, and don't need greenies. Asked her about Nutro and the rumors that had been going around. She said they were just trying to get the best products available, and no chinese grains. So production of some kibble was very limited. When we were done, she approached a guy with a cute pitt (a bit timid backing around the back of the owner)and started the same greenie salespitch with him. He was taken in by it all. When he left we were checking out right behind him, and the cashier guy went to pet the pit on the top of his head without even letting the dog give him a sniff or anything. The dog backed away and wouldnt let cashier touch him. Do they train these employees on how to approach dogs??? My 12 yr old daughter commented to me on the way out, how stupid the cashier was to do that(she even knows better).
 

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"She was clicking which queued the dogs to jump up on the person, then she would rattle away and the dog would jump down. After going to the one dog, then the other then back to the other and then back again, she exclaimed "well, there is definitely progress."

Please don't paint all clicker trainers with the same wide brush. I've been training/teaching operant conditioning with clickers for over 10 years and it isn't anything thing like this one clueless person's method.

It all goes back to the individual trainer - good and bad just as in any field.
 

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I am a pet trainer for petsmart and I was a little disappointed with the training we get it ist Nearly enough, You really have to luck out and hope you get a trainer with some experience who actually reads alot of dog training dog behavior books works with fosters ect, will give you the extra time and try to solve problems with the least harsh method first, before resorting to some tin can, well We all have to start somewhere tho,
I think clickers can be great tools, however i wouldn't use them in a beginner, puppy class (which cover the jumping thing) mostly because you got like 9 puppys and 9 people click click clicking and the dogs dunno what click is for them and which one is for the dog next to them, so its stupid to use in a class setting ( at home is fine) until the dogs are fairly used to listening to their owners and there owners only, as for the can thing sounds like she was abusing the naughty can, (sounds like a trainer that is doing this job for fun and doesn't bother to learn much more about dogs, the trainers that make a bad name for the rest of us sigh) It really should only be used for one behavior problem like just barking, There are some amazing pet trainers with Petsmart so I wouldn't judge to harshly on what one trainer did, As for the irresponsible dog owners, that just let there dogs poop and pee everywhere well thats going to heppon at any public place that allows dogs, and irresponsible dog owners All petsmart employees are Trained to Never reach over a dogs head to let them sniff and approach you, although people again are stupid even employees that are trained in this can seem to forget again anywhere you go you get alot of teenager cashiers, and we all know how well teenagers listen to what there suppose to do, so sorry to hear about your bad experiences but i wouldnt ban petsmart just because of a few bad employees we got some awesome trainers and stores here in upstate ny if you ever visit
 

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Sounds like this trainer didn't know how to properly use a clicker or how to properly train someone else how to use it. I clicker train the Mutt and we assist classes with our trainer as well. Right now, we have a class of 4 puppies all working with the clicker (and I am occasionally click/treating Risa as well). None of the dogs have a problem working with the multiple clicks at once. They figure out pretty quickly that the only click that matters is the one from their owner (though, on occasion, they will look at their owner expectantly just in case that other click might get them a treat too).

It's unfortunate that the Petsmart training is so varied and that owners often don't get as much out of it as they could. I generally hate Petsmart and dread going in there. I have a scared, fearful dog and I have watched Petsmart employees try to pet her after watching her bolt away from them as they walked on by. Duh! (I'm much more proactive now then I was when I let that happen.)

It sucks that there are so many irresponsible people out there. It's not too difficult to clean up after your own dog or to make sure s/he's under control while you're out in public. But it seems people who are responsible for their dogs and their dogs' actions are in short supply.


Good luck with the titles!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I am not knocking clicking. I tried it with one of my dogs. It is not my thing. I am knocking clicking in one hand and shaking in the other. I think if I was a dog, and some trainer came up to me armed with a clicker in one hand and a can of pennies in the other, she wouldn't have any way of treating or disciplining so I would have to bite her because of how totally annoying she was.

Good thing I am not a dog, eh!

I understand the concept of clicking and whatever works is fine, but the clicking / rattling had me rattled. One would expect a trainer to demonstrate what they want for you to try at home. I have enough trouble managing treats. Click and treat was just too much. A leash and treats is about all I can do. No way could I click and treat and shake that can and still have control over the dog. This woman was crouched down too. If I did that to Tori, she would hightail it outside and hide in her dog house, and I wouldn't balme her a bit.
 
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