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Discussion Starter #1
hey guys, I'm busy thinking about getting a pup in the near future for schutzhund and i've been told to keep it crated at all times when you cannot supervise it. When I tell my parents that the pup will be crated to be kept apart from the other dogs in the house as well as to reduce chances of him destroying things they say its cruel and inhumane.

How can I change their way of thinking to let them see crating as not such a terrible thing? This will be the first real working dog we've ever owned and my family can't imagine the fact that it will be locked up in a crate whilst i'm at varsity. They just think it should be allowed to be free and play with the other dogs while we're out.... HELP!!!????
 

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I disagree that your pup should be kept away from other dogs in the house. Why would you want to exclude him from the rest of the pack?

However, when someone is not there watching him, he should be crated so he doesn't destroy the house. Unless they want their house chewed apart...

As far as cruel and inhuman, my dog was crated during her puppyhood. Now she goes in and hangs out when ever someone's in the basement with her (crate was upstairs when she was using it) Now, she is only locked in if there's workmen in the house.

Ask Mom and Dad if this nearly 7 year old dog looks unhappy?
 

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If you are training your puppy for schutzhund, I think crating is important. Your dog has to be in a crate when you go to training and trialling so he has to be used to it. (Your car will not survive if you don't crate)

Crating makes potty training easier, crating keeps your house safe, and I think most importantly crating keeps your puppy safe! Anyone have dollars to spare when you puppy ingests a sock when your weren't looking, develops a blockage, and needs a hospital stay and surgery? Not me. Enjoy diarrhea? Me neither. If your puppy eats something he shouldn't that he found on the floor or in the garbage (at 5 months old my puppy can reach the counter) and his stomach gets upset you could be cleaning up a lot of poop. Do you like yelling at your dog? Cause you'll do it a lot more if you don't crate. My dogs love their crates. It's where they get their best chew toys and snacks. I think it can be more inhumane NOT to crate.

Personally, I don't let our 5 month old play much with our 15 month old. 3 or 4 times a week they run and play together in the field by our house and they see each other through their crates daily when they walk by each other, but not any more than that. They go out separately on walks, we socialize them separately, and we keep them in separate rooms in the house.

I have found this to be important for the puppy because if left to be with the dog, she 100% prefers her brother to people. She comes because he comes and she's glued to his butt, not because she is listening to her handler. So while she's young we're focusing on her handler being the source of all fun and goodness in the world. (Crating also helps with this, fun and happiness begin when you the handler come to bring the dog out to play!!) When we can call her away from play with her brother, then I will know she can be around him more often. Our 15 month old male understands this and will ignore her completely when working. This is what we shoot for.

In Schutzhund training and competition you will work with other dogs on the field and you never want your dog to be distracted by them. So you socialize and train for being "Dog Neutral", ignoring other dogs, they are nothing to be concerned about and they are nothing to pay attention to either.
 

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this is the first time i crated a dog and it worked out just fine. our boy had run of the house from the moment i brought him home at 9 weeks old. no problem. i didn't allow him to stay in any one room alone for more than seconds. we kept a close eye on him. we also have a 7 yr. old Grey Hound. they were together all of the time. as far as bounding with her more than with us i don't think so. we had no problem training him. we trained in the house with the Grey Hound right there. outside training it was just the Shep and one of us. now we weren't training for Schutzhund. we just wanted a well trained pet/companion. it seems to me that he bonded with all of us. he listens to us in front of the Grey Hound or when she's not around but that's how he was raised. as far as crating the Shep we did it at night time and whenever we weren't home. the Grey Hound has been crated in years.
Originally Posted By: JKlatskyIf you are training your puppy for schutzhund, I think crating is important. Your dog has to be in a crate when you go to training and trialling so he has to be used to it. (Your car will not survive if you don't crate)

Crating makes potty training easier, crating keeps your house safe, and I think most importantly crating keeps your puppy safe! Anyone have dollars to spare when you puppy ingests a sock when your weren't looking, develops a blockage, and needs a hospital stay and surgery? Not me. Enjoy diarrhea? Me neither. If your puppy eats something he shouldn't that he found on the floor or in the garbage (at 5 months old my puppy can reach the counter) and his stomach gets upset you could be cleaning up a lot of poop. Do you like yelling at your dog? Cause you'll do it a lot more if you don't crate. My dogs love their crates. It's where they get their best chew toys and snacks. I think it can be more inhumane NOT to crate.

Personally, I don't let our 5 month old play much with our 15 month old. 3 or 4 times a week they run and play together in the field by our house and they see each other through their crates daily when they walk by each other, but not any more than that. They go out separately on walks, we socialize them separately, and we keep them in separate rooms in the house.

I have found this to be important for the puppy because if left to be with the dog, she 100% prefers her brother to people. She comes because he comes and she's glued to his butt, not because she is listening to her handler. So while she's young we're focusing on her handler being the source of all fun and goodness in the world. (Crating also helps with this, fun and happiness begin when you the handler come to bring the dog out to play!!) When we can call her away from play with her brother, then I will know she can be around him more often. Our 15 month old male understands this and will ignore her completely when working. This is what we shoot for.

In Schutzhund training and competition you will work with other dogs on the field and you never want your dog to be distracted by them. So you socialize and train for being "Dog Neutral", ignoring other dogs, they are nothing to be concerned about and they are nothing to pay attention to either.
 

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crating any dog despite they breed is important.
Even if it is just for puppy training.

I don't know why you would need to segregate this puppy from the rest of the dogs, unless its "while unsupervised"

Little story, My echo who is 14 months old , was crated while we were out, or at night until he slowly earned a large confinment space, and now has rull roam of the house 24/7

We just got a rescue last week, so the crate went back up for her.
Echo never seemed too attached to his crate, but now, he will go in there and hang out, WITH the new doggie.

They dig it, it is , if used properly a safe comforting place for them.

Crate isn't for punishment, its for protection.

How to convince your parents? dunno. Maybe have them talk to a trainer, google some articles and print them out?
 

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I agree that you need to keep your pup segregated from other dogs while you are training, and a crate is the best bet while you are out. When I got Maxie, I did not let her interact with ANY dogs until she was 6 months old. Reason being, this is the critical bonding time, when you will become their best friend, mentor, pack leader etc. I can not stress this enough that you need to set standards at a young age, otherwise you will be facing problems for the life of the dog.
 

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I agree with everyone's comments that favor crating.

However, just a reminder. SCH traning is intense, requires the right dog, and a lot of commitment. If you are expereinced I apologize for the reminder, if not check the SCH portion of this board.
 

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I've never had problems with puppies/adults bonding with me even though they're allowed to play with the other Hooligans. I do things separately with the new comer such as obedience, little trips, etc. But I also do separate things with all the Hooligans as individuals, including something as simple as a walk around the yard, a trip to the corner store if it's cool, etc.

Of course I watch them like a hawk when a young pup is playing outdoors with the adults - accidents can happen. But even in the house the pup mingles with the adults while he's earning freedom of the house.

I believe in crate training for puppies. Like another poster mentioned, crates can prevent some expensive vet bills when a puppy chews/eats something that can harm him. And they seem to like the crates - evey after earning complete freedom of the house most of the Hooligans still nap off and on in crates throughout the day.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for your help guys. I think the best solution might be to take my parents down to the club and let them speak to the members there. I finally managed to get my father to watch "your puppy 8 weeks to 8 months" and he wasn't too happy with it. I would hate him to see "Raising a working puppy" as I imagine it would be a lot more strict regarding crating and socialisation with people and dogs.

I'm still not too sure on the whole keeping the pup away from older dogs as i've received a mix of opinions. Maybe people with purely working/sport dogs could let me know of they've raised their pups?
 

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I LOVED LOVED the dvd 8 wks to 8 mnths. I was disappointed in other Leerburg video's but thought that one was crammed with good info.

Keeping the pup seperated from the other dogs was foreign concept to me as well and I thought it seemed like entirely too much work. For what?
Always growing up we got a dog, took it to the vet and fed and watered. Not much more to it. We always had great dogs who all lived to a ripe old age. Why was everything all of a sudden so complicated?
I had met Ed Fawley (Leerburg) through his horses before I even knew he did dogs. I liked him imensely so decided to give his method a go. (somewhat)

I never issolated COMPLETELY but the amount I did do has produced a dog who is HIGHLY focused on me and HIGHLY bonded. Quincy also has a greater work ethic than any other dog I have owned. HE adores my boxer and I could see if I raised him loose with her that he would be doggy. Which means basically more bonded to her than me.

Quincy is almost 8 mnths old and already in an advanced obedience class, has his CGC and tracking and herding instinct tested. Even other shepherd owners in the class remark how loving and good natured he is and yet completely focused on work. I completely give credit to Leerburg methods as of all 6 in his litter he is far above and this has been with many health issues slowing his progress.

He is truely a canine good citezen. I go most places off leash with no issues. Hard work and structure has totally paid off with this dog.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My dad has the same view as you had mjbo3. We've had dogs all our lives and now why do we have to change things and create a major logistical hassle with which dog is where and who's watching who etc.

How exactly did you raise him with regards to crating and socialising with the other dogs at home?
 
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