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Discussion Starter #1
I've seen numerous threads where new people are trying to find a decent dog from a good breeder.

There is a thread running now, where the price is too low. Must not be a good dog. Titles, might mean two dogs thrown together just because of there titles. May not be a good dog. Then there is the whole "lines argument".

A favorite is to go look at the dogs and the parents.

I could go on but here is the problem, the new person likes the breed and wants one. They are not educated about different lines, probably don't know schutzhund from a German Polka. What's an IPO or a PSA? Many never heard of those things.

They are not experts in genetics or pedigrees.

Visit the breeder and look at the dogs. Look at what, they are all cute.

Show them the "what to look for in a responsible breeder" thread. Won't understand a lot of it and probably won't do it anyway.

Too many questions and too much to understand right now, so they get the cute cheap one off Craig's List.

I don't have an answer but if they can't find a simpler way to get a stable GSD by asking on forums like this then what else is there.

Dog people, like many on here, are sometimes so far removed from the average family that just wants a decent animal companion... and their level of knowledge, that it seems very difficult to help them.

Some will say they shouldn't get a GSD if they don't want to do a lot of research. Maybe not but they are going to anyway so it is too bad they can't be helped at a level they can comprehend.
 

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I don't think starting a thread asking about certain breeders on a forum is enough. I'd have no idea who is giving the advice(especially if I were new to the board).
Reading, reading, reading would be better....and go on different boards if possible/though I know this one is always first in a search.
Once I've read that seeing dogs in training would be an option to learn lines, then I'd be getting out to some training clubs and making some contacts within my local community.

I'm on a facebook page of local GSD owners and most of them have no idea what lines their dogs are, and most of them do no formal training either.
They are pet owners...and most of the dogs are fairly stable in temperament, happy family members.
 

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I new this thread was going to be good coming from you. Haha

Anyways, I commented on that thread. I said to look at lines because the breeders they asked about all produce different lines. I cant in good conscience recommend a breeder without knowing more about the persons life style. That's why I asked that. Why would I recommend a breeder who produces high drive working dogs to someone who sits on the couch and watches Oprah all day? That dog would most likely end up rehomed or in a shelter. In terms of titles, I think the breeder everyone liked actually had dogs that were not titled but they did have health checks and solid pedigrees. As for the price thing, even the breeders the poster asked about were more expensive than they said their budget was so...
 

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Is there "a simpler way to get a stable GSD" other than doing your research?

Lucking out? Certainly not every $500-600 dog is going to have issues...

Possibly finding a stable adult in rescue? IDK...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I simply used that thread as a starting point. This thread was not intended to be about that one.

People come on here all the time wanting a puppy and don't know anything about pedigrees, titles, genetics, protection sports, or the history of the breed. There must be a way to help them.

I thought maybe sharing the characteristics of the breed might be a starting place but we can't even agree on them

I saw a post the other day where the individual said that a GSD should have no inherent aggression. If they had aggression it was a fault.
Huh! Without it they couldn't function in the capacities they were created for.
So telling people inaccurate things aren't helpful

Like I said I don't have an answer.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Is there "a simpler way to get a stable GSD" other than doing your research?

Lucking out? Certainly not every $500-600 dog is going to have issues...

Possibly finding a stable adult in rescue? IDK...
Did you do a lot of research when you got your first GSD?

My first one was gifted to me because I liked them. I didn't have a clue.
 

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I don't have an answer either:(
 

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Great thread Andy. Wish I had the answers. All I can say is I got a great family GSD from the SPCA. She was 2 years old. Never knew a darned thing about her. I didn't find this board until my GSD was already ten years old. I did zero research, before adopting a GSD. I had young kids. Didn't use a crate. Brought the dog home and set her lose. I guess sometimes we do everything wrong and it still turns out right. "Lucked out" as Jackand Mattie said.

Honestly, I think it is a blessing I didn't find this board sooner. Ignorance is bliss. LOL!
 

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You're right, no one can agree. I think by new people coming and asking opinions about breeders, they do get help. They may not understand it just yet but a lot of info gets thrown at them. So since they don't have a puppy yet it's the perfect time to start informing them. I would say that the majority of us on this forum have learned the hard way and if can help people learn from our mistakes we will.
 

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I don't think starting a thread asking about certain breeders on a forum is enough. I'd have no idea who is giving the advice(especially if I were new to the board).
Reading, reading, reading would be better....and go on different boards if possible/though I know this one is always first in a search.
Once I've read that seeing dogs in training would be an option to learn lines, then I'd be getting out to some training clubs and making some contacts within my local community.

I'm on a facebook page of local GSD owners and most of them have no idea what lines their dogs are, and most of them do no formal training either.
They are pet owners...and most of the dogs are fairly stable in temperament, happy family members.
I understand what you are saying, but the average pet owner is probably not going to take the time to observe training to learn lines. I know that I would have been overwhelmed by that suggestion as a newbie. And what if you just want a pet and most of the dogs you see in training facilities are bred for a job of some sort and would be too high drive for the average owner, which by your own observations don't do formal training.

I do agree that most new pet owners don't know about pedigrees, genetics, protection sports, etc. I certainly didn't and still don't know very much (but I learn so much here!). I researched what to look for in a breeder in general, but beyond that, I really was uninformed. I did check out the "what to look for in a breeder" thread and it did help a bit. Should I have done more research? Possibly. But the fact is that I was also reading up on how to select a breeder, what info I could about GSDs, puppy raising, basic training, etc. There's a lot of research involved in this type of purchase already, so I think it's great to have a thread to point people in the right direction, give them questions to think about/ask and simplify the process even a little.

Honestly, as someone recently in this situation, I would say my best advice is to look up different breeders, have honest conversations with them about your wants in a dog and your lifestyle, ask lots of questions and do your research on what to look for in a good/reputable breeder and go from there. If you can find a good breeder, that's half the battle and they can help you select the right dog for you without you having to know all the particulars of genetics, lines, etc. They can explain their line to you best and explain what type of temperaments, drive, energy levels they produce and see if it would match with the potential owner's lifestyle.
 

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When I was looking for my dog I didn't have a clue about a lot of things, I didn't even know there were different lines and had never heard of IPO. All I wanted at the time was good temperament and health, I made sure they all had hip checks and sat down with the breeder for a long time talking, learning(that's when I found out about all the different lines, their issues, etc) and meeting her dogs. I was well impressed by her dogs temperament and her knowledge but before I decided I came here and found several people who had dogs from her and asked them ALL kinds of questions. Of course I guess it's fair to say I'm not quite just an 'average pet owner'.

Unfortunately a lot of people want a dog and want it RIGHT NOW, they are impulsive and get the first dog they can find. If they really are committed to getting a good healthy pet then I think what I did above would be a good starting point. And I think no matter how hard you try to convince someone most 'pet people' are not going to care if the dogs have titled in some sport they've never heard of so for those people I think emphasizing solid temperament, health and if the dog would fit their lifestyle is best. But beyond that there's probably not much that can be done for an impulsive buyer. :(
 

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I have to admit I am one of those people who doesn't know much about pedigree when it comes to GSDs. I never did a lot of research before I picked my breeder, past looking into her and her dogs. I had a friend who had bought a GSD from her and was very pleased with his dog.

I can say I was very pleased with everything I read about her and her dogs. I love the look of her dogs and they all appeared very well balanced. I love Ammo and am very happy with him, I would change him for anything. He is very well balanced and very eager to learn.

Ammo was not a very expensive dog. He only cost me $650, normally $800-$900 from this breeder. I think I got an awesome deal on him and found a wonderful breeder. Feel free to check her out and let me know what you think. www.taylorsgsd.com. Ammo's parents are Roxi and Geschenk.

I really think I got very lucky with the breeder I found. ImageUploadedByPG Free1368484091.340628.jpg ImageUploadedByPG Free1368484109.401572.jpg ImageUploadedByPG Free1368484137.744344.jpg


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People are fully capable of educating themselves. I have not had GSDs that long and have not had problems visiting clubs, meeting breeders, going to events, reading about dogs (yes even online). I was not born into a dog family; I never owned a dog until I got my first GSD at age 22 and I not only got a GSD but a working line dog and never had problems because I tried to do my research up front and got a dog that matched my lifestyle even though it wasn't what I wanted in "looks" (I wanted a large, heavy boned, eastern style male and I got a 50lb light sable female). If one is not looking for something *very* specific for breeding or training, then it shouldn't be that hard to do some hands-on research and come out with a nice pet.
 

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I think people who have the most "dog experience" can be the most difficult to educate. I was.
I grew up a dog person, worked for the humane society, volunteered at a vet clinic starting in 7th grade and stayed involved in all things "dog."
In college I worked for a well-known breeder of European showlines and the only thing I learned was that "those people are crazy." The world was SOOOO different than everyday life with dogs that it took a long time for me to start changing some of my viewpoints.
 

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I think most of us are helpful and doing our best to provide answers. That's all we can do. The ultimate responsibility lies with the new adopter.
Meeting the sire and dam, checking references from other adopters and vets seems good advice to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
People are fully capable of educating themselves. I have not had GSDs that long and have not had problems visiting clubs, meeting breeders, going to events, reading about dogs (yes even online). I was not born into a dog family; I never owned a dog until I got my first GSD at age 22 and I not only got a GSD but a working line dog and never had problems because I tried to do my research up front and got a dog that matched my lifestyle even though it wasn't what I wanted in "looks" (I wanted a large, heavy boned, eastern style male and I got a 50lb light sable female). If one is not looking for something *very* specific for breeding or training, then it shouldn't be that hard to do some hands-on research and come out with a nice pet.
Except there are only about ten people like you in the United States.

I'll bet you research cars the same way and give much analysis to what's for dinner also.:)
 

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I've seen numerous threads where new people are trying to find a decent dog from a good breeder.

There is a thread running now, where the price is too low. Must not be a good dog. Titles, might mean two dogs thrown together just because of there titles. May not be a good dog. Then there is the whole "lines argument".

A favorite is to go look at the dogs and the parents.

I could go on but here is the problem, the new person likes the breed and wants one. They are not educated about different lines, probably don't know schutzhund from a German Polka. What's an IPO or a PSA? Many never heard of those things.

They are not experts in genetics or pedigrees.

Visit the breeder and look at the dogs. Look at what, they are all cute.

Show them the "what to look for in a responsible breeder" thread. Won't understand a lot of it and probably won't do it anyway.

Too many questions and too much to understand right now, so they get the cute cheap one off Craig's List.

I don't have an answer but if they can't find a simpler way to get a stable GSD by asking on forums like this then what else is there.

Dog people, like many on here, are sometimes so far removed from the average family that just wants a decent animal companion... and their level of knowledge, that it seems very difficult to help them.

Some will say they shouldn't get a GSD if they don't want to do a lot of research. Maybe not but they are going to anyway so it is too bad they can't be helped at a level they can comprehend.
I think we shouldn't underestimate the people who come here to ask about getting a GSD.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I think we shouldn't underestimate the people who come here to ask about getting a GSD.
I'm sorry but all you have to do is look at some of the questions. It's not their fault, anymore than it was mine for all the mistakes I made over the years.

People start wherever they are and often times the only thing people know is that they like GSDs and want one.
So if you talk to them about schutzhund, they may wonder why you are talking to them about the sauce they had at Chinese dinner the other night.

It is a gift to be able to help someone at the level they are, on any topic.
a major difference between good teachers and not so good.
 

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I think we shouldn't underestimate the people who come here to ask about getting a GSD.
I agree with this. Coming to the board and asking questions is far more than most people do.

However, I think, as much as we may not agree, that a majority of people with GSD have zero desire or intentions to do anything with them beyond puppy classes.

Do I wish that weren't true, yup. I happen to be a bit of a breed purist. For all breeds actually. I wish their were more venues and education. I actually got into a heated "debate" with a client once, who had Berners and Am Foxhounds, that he showed( successfully in conformation) in regards to working titles being a requirement if getting a Ch. his argument was that it us not possible because there are not enough opportunities. I argued, and he finally conceded, that if it were required, there would be more trials.

I think if you love a breed, you should love everything about them and want to provide them with their natural outlet. It's why I will never own a BC. I love them too much to make them into something different than what they are.

But, I know a bit off topic there for a second, I am aware that most people do not share this ideal. People want a Lab that us happy, friendly, easy going and lovable. I have a working Lab. She is not these things to strangers. She is all about the work. She is that way to me and people she knows. But she is selective. As are ALL working Labs I have met.

Trying to get back to topic here, bear with me. I know that most people looking for a GSD want a dog that is one of two things:

1. Friendly solid, good with kids and other dogs, that can go to family picnics, dog parks, and greet everyone with a tail wag.

2. Friendly, social happy and a staunch guard dog, without proper training.

The 5% of owners that actively work their dogs are in the minority. So I think that we need to help people wanting dogs for different reasons. Help them find a dig that has health checks and temperament tests, without all the bells and whistles of titles, certs, and generations if solid police dogs in the background.

I may not agree, but it us possible to breed good pets. Digs with low/medium drive, environmental soundness and decent health, for a general population. We are not going to "unconvince" someone, but we can steer and give them things to ask. Educate them in the general health issues, temperament issues, and soundness they need to verify before purchase.

Pretty sure I added nothing to this conversation. But there it is.


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agreeing with Jack's Dad.

gsdsar "I think if you love a breed, you should love everything about them and want to provide them with their natural outlet. It's why I will never own a BC. I love them too much to make them into something different than what they are." then extend the same philosophy to the GSD.

The breed has a written constitution , the breed standard, which sets out the what the ideal is. No deviations .

" Help them find a dig that has health checks and temperament tests, without all the bells and whistles of titles, certs, and generations if solid police dogs in the background. "
Why not?
Who is breeding them?
 
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