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Line-breeding for the progency of Ruger Van Den Heuvel and Zanet Jipo-Me

Is a pup produced from these lines suitable as a family pet or will it have too much drive? thanks!
It depends on the personality and activity level of the individual puppy. The pedigree isn't important - whether the animal matches your personality and lifestyle will decide whether its going to be a good family pet. An ethical and responsible breeder should learn what you're looking for in a GSD and match you to the right puppy. That will take some trial and error! I hope you find the puppy of your dreams. Good luck!
 

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GSD cannot be just a family pet. They are tolerant to children, but just about it. They choose only one owner and would be totally devoted to him/her, other members of the family are not so loved. GSD is a working dog, they suffer without daily physical and intellectual workload, and they can be a perfect companion for a person who likes a lot of exercise in general, if other members of the family are same sporty - it will be very good for the dog, because nothing could be more exciting than the full pack wandering together. GSDs are a breed of agressive dogs, agression is mild and becomes easily controllable with proper training. Attempts to breed "agressive gene" out and to breed a "family pet" out of GSD let to feeble-mindedness, skittishness and other negative characteristics carried genetically.
 

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David Taggart, i appreciate you taking the time to respond but i've read some of your posts and you give the worst advice on this forum and its borderline comical.

I've searched through many threads trying to figure out how to read these things and its so confusing. i have no idea how people can just look at names and tell if its a working vs showline. based on this chart, how can you tell how much drive a litter will have? how can you tell if its a good pedigree or just a mix of random dogs creating unpredictable traits?
 

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I'm a little confused. You're looking at a pup out of lines with multiple world level competition dogs out of a Jipo-me female and you don't want a high drive dog? I'm not trying to be offensive, I really don't understand.

If you want a dog that will settle after a good workout, that's a different question. If you want a "club level" competition dog, that would be a different question. If you want a strong dog with strong nerves, maybe higher threshold or medium energy (vs high energy), again this would be a different question.

Often there is a spectrum of personalities in every litter, but after a quick look at the titles in the pedigree, I would think a breeder puts lines like this together (generally speaking) to produce high drive, higher energy dogs.

What did the breeder tell you about what they expect from this litter? Why are they using the female? Why the male? Why the male for this female? What are they trying to improve, and what are the goals?

I would hope to get a better understanding of what to expect if you get these questions answered.

I was anxious about my first working line dog. It's a lot of work, but don't let it scare you away! You can do it. Try and go into it with as much info as you can. If your committed, and you know what you're getting into, there is a very high probability of success!

Good luck!!


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While I hope you can get some good information here, I think it really comes down to speaking with the breeder. Be honest about your expectations and see whether they believe this litter would have a good match for you. As Kingsj has already stated, the breeder should be able to explain what their goals are for this match and what they expect out of it

Just because you want a lower drive dog doesn't mean you can't have a well bred one, but you need to be matched to the right pup :)
 

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My last dog was what i considered a family pet. he loved hiking and running and being outside but he lacked the focus and just the desire to work. i want my next dog to WANT to work and have fun doing it. i've considered ipo but i have to get the right dog first. this is my first time ever buying from a breeder. the guy sounds like he cares about his dogs but he doesnt own a kennel or anything. the dam was imported from czech at 8 weeks and lives with him. he also owns the sire but neither of them have any titles. so with that said, i just need help deciphering the pedigree as to if these dogs will be great working dogs with great focus or more suitable as a pet.

every german shepherd can sit stay down etc but certain ones do it with that extra umph and eagerness.
 

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simba first I'm glad you can differentiate helpful info from non helpful info:)

With that said, is there anyway you can meet the parents of this litter?

I know Patti a member here, not sure she posts much here anymore has a vandenheuval dog, she was rather a novice owner, she has trained him to be her service dog, but it wasn't an easy road..Now that he's matured, he's great for her.

Doubt it's the same lineage tho.

I am by far no pedigree expert, but I would fathom a guess at these being high energy dogs that won't be couch potatoes. How high an energy? couldn't guess, what I would consider high energy and what you would consider high energy may be different.

I would pm Cliff here, he's great a pegging pedigrees..
 

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If you want a working/competition dog, my advice would be to look for a breeder who actively competes with and titles their dogs in any venue that might interest you. There are lots of them on this forum and lots more recommended regularly in threads.

That's my plan, when I'm ready to get my dog, and I'm doing it that way because I want to work with someone who has developed a good eye for evaluating puppies as competition prospects. Knowing the bloodlines is super, but even better than that is someone who knows the bloodlines and can tell me about the individual pups in the litter.

If this person hasn't titled or worked their dogs, and you want to work and title yours, I'd go to a different breeder.
 

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What I can tell you is every jipo-me dog I have worked (about 5) has been VERY high drive. From the look of the pedigree (I'm just learning so take with a grain of salt) this looks like a high drive/energy litter. That being said the breeder would know best. Just because the majority of the dogs are higher drive doesn't mean they all are.

Oh and the pedigree isn't everything. I found a dog I was in love with on paper(so were three breeders that were trying to buy him). Should have been high drive/energy and an all around solid dog. It was the laziest Czech dog I had ever seen. So....
 

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It will depend on the individual puppy in the litter. I know the dogs in this pedigree quite well....my current male is out of a son of Pucci Jipo Me, and he is not high drive at all. I have seen over twenty five pups out of the sister to Bady Ze Svobodneho Dvora , and all but maybe three are in regular family homes. This litter should have solid nerve, some pups will be drivier than others, but no reason most of this litter won't make good family dogs with families that have good common sense.
 

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GSD cannot be just a family pet. They are tolerant to children, but just about it. They choose only one owner and would be totally devoted to him/her, other members of the family are not so loved. GSD is a working dog, they suffer without daily physical and intellectual workload, and they can be a perfect companion for a person who likes a lot of exercise in general, if other members of the family are same sporty - it will be very good for the dog, because nothing could be more exciting than the full pack wandering together. GSDs are a breed of agressive dogs, agression is mild and becomes easily controllable with proper training. Attempts to breed "agressive gene" out and to breed a "family pet" out of GSD let to feeble-mindedness, skittishness and other negative characteristics carried genetically.

Do you even know what you're talking about?

OP, I cant say much in regards to the pedigree as I'm still learning myself and have a LONG way to go. However, I can say that as others have said, it will depend on the individual pup. My guy is out of a good solid set of parents that work and have energy to burn but are still good family pets. And my guy has some dogs in his pedigree from lines that I wouldn't consider easy lines given what they're bred to do. He's been a great family member so far.

Talk to the breeder. The breeder should be able to help you more than trying to go off the pedigree of the dog.
 

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I have a Jipo-me granddaughter. She is a great pet, yet she does have drive and is always ready to go. Your breeder should be able to guide you.
 

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One of the most misunderstood perceptions in the breed.....that a dog can't have drive and be a great pet/family dog:crazy:.
 

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very true cliff, tho I must say some just aren't really prepared for all that energy/drive.

To bad, I enjoy it, tho there are days I think I'm to old for it:)
 

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I know these lines VERY well.

My female is a Xant/Puci grand-daughter (Masa's full sister) and I was VERY close to her dam (Masa's full sister) as well as several others from this crossing and others like it/same dogs but with different pairings.

I can tell you that my female is a VERY high energy, HIGH drive girl. Very hard female who is one of the most intense dogs I have ever met. She has been evaluated by several people who are more knowledgeable that I, and they all agree.

BUT

She is also a great family dog. She settles in the house (but this has taken almost 2 years) now and is a very fun dog to train. She is involved in MANY activities such as schutzhund, agility and other fun things such as lure coursing, nose work and we are starting PSA.

I would say be honest with yourself, with your breeder and then make the choice together if this is the litter for you.

A high energy, high drive dog can be a great family pet WITH THE RIGHT FAMILY.
 

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I can tell you that my female is a VERY high energy, HIGH drive girl. Very hard female who is one of the most intense dogs I have ever met..
what do you mean by intense? intense as in a strong full bite and does everything with spazz or intense as in super sharp always alert never letting her guard down?

im ok with a dog with an intense drive and even intense amount of energy as long as they have a rock solid temperment.
 

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It also depends on how the dog is managed. If a dog is crated all day long there will be pent up energy and the drive levels will be magnified.
I'd rather look at the biddability, pack drive, balance in the brain, thresholds of the dog...is the dog a thinker, or does the dog just go, go, go because it can?
 

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Thresholds make a big difference I think. My GSD is not super high drive or super high energy, but her thresholds are low, almost nonexistent at times :p:p, and that makes her hard to live with. She has a great pedigree based on what many people have told me, just a case of 2 great dogs not creating what the breeder hoped for.
 

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what do you mean by intense? intense as in a strong full bite and does everything with spazz or intense as in super sharp always alert never letting her guard down?

im ok with a dog with an intense drive and even intense amount of energy as long as they have a rock solid temperment.
By intense, I mean she does everything with purpose and with her full ability. Everything she does she throws herself into it, 110%. She has a low-to-medium thresholds which is why she activates so quickly and so intensely.

In obedience she drives forward into the fuss, people who watch her fuss always remark that she looks like she is about to pop forward with the amount of drive she has.

She is a dog who has presence. On and off the field.

In protection she comes in like a bat out of ****. She is very alert and very civil and quite sharp. She throws herself at the decoy with everything they have and if the decoy fights back, it only pushes her further into the fight. She loves to fight.

She is always "on" even when in a calmer mode. She turns on with a drop of a hat.

She is super stable and extremely solid nerve in every situation. She is excellent with people and kids. Indifferent to dogs - does not seek them out at all unless they are "friends" she actually plays with. Something I fostered with her from a young age.

She is VERY biddable and one of the most focused dogs I have ever met. She is always looking at you in the eye and it's almost like she is waiting for you to give her something to do or to communicate with her. Very expressive.

She is not a dog I would say would do well in just a pet home with some walks here and there.. she needs a job or activity in order for her to turn off.

I am currently working her in 3-5 different venues and she is excelling in all - especially the protection sports/IPO and PSA - but is also great at agility and nose work.

I will be bringing home a Masa daughter next year in hopes of having similar qualities in my new puppy as my Zefra. I have enjoyed these lines for almost 8 years now and am very excited to have a dog like Zefra to work and live with and am really excited to continue working and living with these lines in the future.
 
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