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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, here's the deal guys. I need some serious opinions, suggestions; Back me up on this one... PLEASE!!! This will probably be a bit long due to me giving a background of each of the animals and situations- Apologies ahead of time.


A little background on my family and our dogs:
Between my fiance and I, we have a GSD, Min Pin, and a Warlock Doberman Pinscher. All three are so well behaved other than normal annoyances-Chasing cats, consistent barking while playing, etc. They're great and they've been great since day one because I've repeatedly tried (on purpose) to condition them and socialize them for our children and so they would come to expect close to everything and anything at all possible. My children AND other people can literally take the food and toys away from them and/or out of their mouths if needed and the dogs will just wait for the food to return.

Now, on the other hand...

My parents had a Pomeranian named Lika whom recently passed away about a year and a half ago. I had never known her to be aggressive although my parents said she "didn't like" the neighbor kid and had snapped at him. I was totally unaware of these "attitude problems". Well, after my childhood dog had passed, my parents decided to get another family pet for their house and of course loving the breed, went with the pom. The new baby's name is Shotzie. She's a beautiful little purebred pom and seems to have repeating problems of spontanious aggression. The dog is now a little over a year I believe and since she's been brought home has snapped at certain people (including my mom, my youngest son who is 6, and myself.) Knowing what this could lead to, due to personal experience and handling of dogs, I had repeatedly told my father who is technically the "owner" of the dog, that he needed to take care of that and repremand the dog more often when this happens or it would continue to worsen and more than likely would result in a bite. Nothing was ever done and then dog as I specified, did continue to worsen in material dominance.
So, that being said:
Several weeks back my family and I were over at my mothers house and Christian, my son, was playing with one of his toys and accidentally dropped it too close to the bone the dog was chewing on and the dog jumped up and bit the child in the eyebrow, broke skin, and drew blood. I know this wasn't the dogs fault- She was only doing what she thought was protecting her belongings. I WAS ANGRY WITH MY FATHER. He didn't correct the dog at the time of the bite. Instead when I said something out loud about the dog not being further trained as recommended, HE GOT MAD AT ME AND ACTUALLY STARTED YELLING AT ME AND DEFENDING THE DOG!!! I told him that I wasn't upset at the dog- It was the fact she wasn't even repremanded and then was taken up for when I defended my son. Later I found out that he didn't realize that she actually had bitten him so I explained calmly why I was upset and to please get the dog further help and until then, I wasn't letting my son over there house because I felt I couldn't trust the dog. They agreed to get the dog help and asked ME (I have experience in working with dogs) to do the further training and until properly trained would keep her confined while we were over. I agreed and forgave. UNTIL TODAY.
We were over at the house picking up belated Valentine's Day gifts when I was saying goodbye to my father and when I turned to walk away, the evil little dog attacked my foot and bit my ankle. I did as I said I would and told the dog she was a bad dog and and NO. She ran and my dad had the gall to tell me to leave her alone as if I was picking on her or something!!! She didn't draw blood or break the skin on me but a dog bite, big or small, is a dog bite nonetheless. My mother called me a bit later and having no knowledge of what happened earlier, I informed her and told her that "THAT DOG HAS GOT TO HAVE HELP. IT WILL CONTINUE TO GET WORSE". In which my mother told me that that was her personality and that it was just me that she hated so there was nothing wrong with the dog. "That's just the way she is. If you are afraid of her, we'll put her in the crate when you're here." I responded by saying that it's not normal for a dog to bite and dogs may have personalities but biting is not co-existant with that. I also informed her that I'm not "Afraid" of the dog or I would have hit the door running but that I'm very adament about it will get worse! She said she thinks I'm upset because I didn't get to further train the dog and I told my mother that I'm upset because the dog has now bitten twice and i'm upet that she hasn't had further training- whomever it may be by! I don't care who it is if she has the help she needs!!!!! Why do they not understand this concept!? Next time, it might be my son's actual eye or someone else that may not be as forgiving and press charges but they still continue to defend the dog and blame ME for the dog biting!Can you believe this!!?? I'm appauled and hurt and very, very angry. This poor dog doesn't know this is wrong and is not corrected but shockingly, DEFENDED when the dog snaps or actually bites someone. And for them to choose the dog over their own family is wrong and offensive and physically dangerous!!! I will no longer visit my family anymore or let my son stay until the dog gets help or is removed from the household.

My parents aren't stupid either that's what really bothers me. They are well established in the community and have very respected positions at their place of work. I'm so confused and hurt and scared. Anything good or bad will be appreciated. What does everyone think!? HELP!!!???

Dakota, Apollo, and Pixie's Mom,
Heather
 

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They will understand when they get sued by a neighbor or employee (delivery man, meter reader, etc). You have done what you could and you did a very good job, but they are nurturing a vicious animal. I cannot believe they are allowing their dog attack their own child (you, adult or not), but it happens and I am sorry this is the case with your parents.

For your child's well being and also for yours, I would suggest refusing to come over until they have that pom trained as you've already stated. A small dog can do a lot of damage to a child's face and you would only get berated for trying to correct the dog for biting you. Don't let them bring the pom over either. If they believe the dog is more important than their family, you will find this out in short order.

Some people are just blind to the fact that Little Snookums is being raised to be vicious. They would not allow this to happen with a Rottweiler, but if it's a pom, poodle, or mini schnauzer, it's "cute." It is disgusting, dangerous, and is like hanging a neon sign saying "I have a vicious dog, please sue me now" on their front door.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oh, and to add to this ordeal, I've printed out Pomeranian bites and general dog bite editorials and factorials and little informational columns with certain sentances and tid-bits on small dog, dog bites highlighted and am going to mail these things to them. If it happens again... Even with someone else, I'm pondering reporting the dog. I want to be able to spend time with my family without worrying if half my sons face or my ankles will be chewed off. As for what you've said Diana, I feel in absolute agreement with you. You're absolutely right. It's disgusting, dangerous and open for a lawsuit.
 

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I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I know you KNOW you are right and they are oh so wrong, but this is family, and there is much more than a bratty dog involved.
I think it is often hard for parents to accept that their child knows more than they do (which clearly is the case here). Sounds like they need a third party to tell them the error of their ways because they did not get the message from you.
Is your son OK?
 

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Yes, my son is fine. He has a small scar, but is fine. The scary part is that if Shotzie had bit him just even an inch lower, it would have been his eye. Thank god after everything that HAS happened, even though I do know, it's not truly the dog's fault, I really just wanted to punt that rage-instilling dog across the house today. The dog better watch out. I may Bite back. lol- bad joke sorry. I'm upset.
 

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Heather, if you were not upset I would worry......even though it is not the dog's fault it still needs to be dealt with and I might not have been as gracious as you have been.......
How far can you punt, anyway?
 

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Football is one thing I'm good at and the dog is close to color of the pigskin... Sable? Brown? Who knows... They all run together.

I apologize ya'll. That was uncalled for-lol.

Repeat with me:
It's not the dog's fault. It's not the dog's fault. It's not the dog's fault.
 

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Re: Parents are taking up for their biting Pom-HEL

I had a similar situation, where my parents were watching a relative's un-neutered 7 year old Yorkie for a couple months. That dog was SO nasty! My parents just lived around it, not doing much when he marked the furniture, or growled/nipped from my mom's lap when someone else would approach her, or jumped up on the table...stuff they would NOT tolerate from their border collie.

I came over for a visit, ignored the yapping rat at my feet and sat on the couch. This dog had the nerve to nip me as I was sitting down. I sharply scolded it, and he ran to my mom's lap for safety. I figured he learned not to bother me, so I dropped the issue.

A little later, I got up and walked past my mom's chair, and the little beast actually growled and reached out to try and take a bite out of me! In an instant, I snatched that thing by the scruff and had him pinned on his back on my mom's lap. It was so fast, everyone thought I'd struck the dog, but I let them see I only had his scruff and didn't hurt him.

I swear that dog must have seen the light, because ever since that moment, he stopped ALL biting at the door, growling/nipping people from laps, peeing in the house -- everything (Especially when I came to visit). It shocked my parents to see the rough handling, but once they saw the change in the dog, they seemed very relieved that someone had finally done something about it, and were more comfortable being very firm with him.

Too bad you can't do the same for that little turd.

(BTW, Poms are my favorite lap-dog breed, so I'm not being size-ist with the "little X" remarks
)
 

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Re: Parents are taking up for their biting Pom-HEL

Quote:Even with someone else, I'm pondering reporting the dog.
It would probably cause quite the family rift but it may prevent them from being sued and it may prevent a kid from getting that bite that's an inch lower... a pom could easily take out an eye or rip off a lip. Even if there is no big physical damage, the mental damage could be great enough to cause another human to grow up with a needless fear of dogs.
 

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Re: Parents are taking up for their biting Pom-HEL

The other day I was walking in a pet supply store and at the same time a big burly guy with a small little shiztu (sp?), or something that looked like a shiztu, was walking past me. Just as I was passing the dog, he got the sudden urge to attack my feet! Luckily the owner had him on a leash and pulled him back. But he really made me mad, when he thought it was funny! He gave me a half hearted apology and walked away. There I am standing in the middle of the street, staring at his back with my mouth agape, thinking "you got to be kidding me!"

The point is, people thing that small dogs don't need training because they won't cause harm! I had a toy poodle for about 10-11 years before he passed, and lemme tell you, it is the smaller dogs you have to look out for! I think they have a bigger stubborn streak than a GS. For some reason, it was more difficult training my toy poodle than it is training my GS. Big, small, medium doesn't matter...all dogs need training. Had that dog actually bit me, it would cause a whole heap of a mess and I am sure that guy would not have been laughing!
 

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Re: Parents are taking up for their biting Pom-HEL

I can't believe they don't see its wrong that the dog bit your son. And you, their child. Parents are supposed to protect their kids.

You did good and all you could. I'd definitely curtail your visits over to their house and if they don't see the light....make them come over to your house from now on. Can't change morons. (sorry I know they are your parents but from an objective perspective it is foolish).

Chin up, years from now your kids will thank you for trying to protect them.
 

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Re: Parents are taking up for their biting Pom-HEL

I just seem to want to let it go because they're my parents, but I just can't. It's already happened twice. I just can't bring myself to forgive them at this time for their ignorance. They will wind up with a lawsuit from someone.
The dog has the potential to be such a great dog but my dad refuses to let me work with her for some reason. I'm not going to lie, I'm tough on my dogs but I believe in a happy, well mannered, healthy dog and I truly believe in positive reinforcement in any training method is the best and yet it saddens me that for my parents think this is her "personality"and can't be "fixed". It kills me to see what a danger the dog can be but yet what a positive addition she has the potential to be.
 

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Re: Parents are taking up for their biting Pom-HEL

It sounds to me like THEY need to work with and train the dog. If you're doing it and the rest of the time they allow the dog to do what it wants then it'll not change.

There was an episode of "It's Me Or The Dog" where the people wouldn't be consistent with discpline - the gal took them to the shelter and said "this is where your dog *is* going to end up if *you* don't change". They left - and changed.

Maybe send some Cesar Milan videos. Love him or hate him he does get to the heart of dog behavior...and has dealt with little monsters. Copy off what happens when a legal bite happens - the dog is impounded/quarantined (different states vary)...*this* is what *will* happen if he does to someone else what he did to your son. It's not funny, it's not a joke and it's not something to ignore.
 

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Re: Parents are taking up for their biting Pom-HEL

Thank you. Any other suggestions and/or help or opinions for me??
Thank you to everyone that's responded so far! Much appreciated!!
 

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Re: Parents are taking up for their biting Pom-HEL

Heather,

Nothing you say or do will change this situation, it will only worsen your relationship with your parents. The dog is being developed into a ticking time bomb. It will blow, it's just a matter of time. The only thing you can do is make sure you and your family are not the ones it blows on. When invited to their home, or if you are asked to work with the dog agree to do so only if he is muzzled and say that up front. Otherwise, avoid the subject all together unless you are asked. When asked, be gravely serious as the situation is gravely serious. My MIL has a female black lab that is red line fear aggressive. To make it worse, she is one of FOUR dogs in their house. Three of them have severe behavioral issues including a chi that wants to attack any dog it sees, and then runs back into my MIL's arms. She picks him up every time, and allows him to outwardly display aggression consistently. It drives me UP A WALL. I watched the lab grow up and said from the beginning they were headed for a huge issue, but I don't know what I'm talking about. They have only asked me one time for my input on what to do, and they did not like my answers. No child of mine will ever be around that dog.
 

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Re: Parents are taking up for their biting Pom-HEL

I wouldn't expose a child to a muzzled nasty dog either. While it won't do the damage teeth will, the child could STILL he hurt and WILL be scared if the dog does after it even WITH a muzzle. (Meaning if the child gets "bashed" in the face with a muzle it will STILL hurt.)
 

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Re: Parents are taking up for their biting Pom-HEL

I saw that article! I couldn't believe that!!!

Oh yeah, and in to response to you Zeus, I think what I will ultimately do is just stay away from the house, cringe and wait for the phone call that says that they are being sued. Also, if they are going to be so darn naive about their precious little "baby doll"; for saftey's sake, I'm keeping us away. Besides, I don't feel it's wrong to choose my family over a progressively aggressive dog unlike others that I know... If you guys know what I mean. I feel bad but sorry... My kid will come before any dog no matter how much I like or love the animal. It really does make me sick to my stomach to see them ruin this poor dog's ultimate disposition and contour to her being small. Again... I will continue to stress to my parents no matter how upset they may get that this dog is starting to get much worse and how quickly this dog will start to isolate guests and famlily besides myself and my family. I really hope that they will trust my judgement on this one but I have a sickening feeling that it's going to have to get worse before it'll get better which really is a shame. Ya know?
 

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Re: Parents are taking up for their biting Pom-HEL

I seriously doubt your parents will ever end up dealing with a lawsuit. So many of these little ankle bitters seem to be aggressive.

For years I worked as a delivery guy for a pharmacy, and every know and then would encounter an ankle biter. Finally, I punted one, and got the dog good, must have been a 40 yard punt. Neither the dog, nor his little buddy ever tried to bite me again. They would ust hide under the porch, when I made my delivery.

I suspect that will work for you, but unfortunately not your son.

So if your parents want to see their grandson welcome them into your home, without the dog.

This is not your problem, it is your parents.
 

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Re: Parents are taking up for their biting Pom-HEL

I was bitten by a 9 year old Chihuahua I fostered. I had my neighbor hold him and when I took him back he bit me. He didn't want to. Well I flipped his nose and GROWLED deeply at him. OH FINE.....Daddy I'll be good. Slept with me that night. A 7 year old red longhaired Doxy was a pets. Her owner had to go into a nursing home. NEVER had ANY discipline. I leaned over to talk to her and she growled at me. I pointed at her and she growled and bit me. I took her by the scruff of the neck and held her down and dominated her. She screamed bloody murder. Twana doing adoptions came running over, and I told her what I was doing. After 30 seconds she quieted down, I got up and turned my back to her, and walked off. I told everyone to show their back and give her NO attention. Next day I was the "Daddy" and she gave me no more problems. It seems this monster needs more work.


Powell
 
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