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Discussion Starter #1
First of all we HAVE gone to vet. We are following directions. But I am scared and upset.

Male GSD aged 10 months. EXCEPTIONALLY active. Very tall for age. No recent vaccinations causing potential issue. No known run ins with any animals. No diarrhea. No cough.

Lost appetite on and off 7 days ago. Assumed heat etc as no change in activity levels of the dog. Very active 2 days ago. Yesterday showed limp in front. No appetite for anything. Very flat. Took to vet.

Neg for heartworm and Lyme. Xrays showed nothing yet (no ED done as not flexed). Mild fever. Wicked lethargy. Blood test done showing elevated whites. Seeming pain on one or both fronts kinda in upper arm or shoulder area.

Vet could not be sure if pano or infection or both. Started Clavasetptin re infection. Tramadol for pain. And Onsior for anti inflammatory.

He has had only one full day of meds into him but this morning he wandered out to pee...is lethargic, refuses to eat and just went to lie down.

Can Pano actually cause that much of a wipeout for an active young dog? I can't even get food into him....he is drinking but my gosh....I am just terrified. How long before those meds kick in IF he is just dealing with Pano?

Sorry for the plea for help but you all know how it feels when your friend is ill.
 

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it can in some. honestly, I dont do meds for pano unless the dog is showing some severe symptoms. Even then, it can take a couple days for them to really kick in.
Plus, with the heat he is still going to be some lethargic. Plus, the antibiotics can make him a bit queasy in some cases, especailly if his appetite is off. The tramadol has nausea as a side effect as well. Doubly so if not taken with a meal.


Also, if you are anxious about him eating, that can make him LESS likely to want to eat. He doesn't know why but the food is making you nervous. So he doesn't want to eat it because hey, mom is freaking out. maybe she doesn't want me to eat this.

I'd let him rest. Put out some tasty food, maybe a little extra garnish to encourage him to eat. Feed early in the morning or later at night when it's cooler. Otherwise rest.
 

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This must be a magic age for them(10-12 months). My female had something similar at 12 months. All the same symptoms plus eyes were so bloodshot they were red not white. Tested for everything out there--nothing. They put her on strong antiobiotics and about s week later she was fine. I never found out what it was, all tests were negative. I just let her be and go at her own pace. Very scary. I hope yours feels better soon.
 

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I think if you dog is in pain no matter the cause, it will affect his appetite. My boy did go off his food during a painful bout of pano and he did become lethargic due to the pain.

There are a lot of really good threads about pano on this forum. It is how I got my education on the subject. Will see if I kept any links.

Sorry, I don't have the links any more. But the search function should help you out.
 

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This sounds similar as symptoms caused by Hyper Osteo Dystrophy, which Cam has a mild case of. Take the x rays to an orthopedic vet.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the replies...keep them coming. Drinking fine. His temp is now 40 degrees C which is about 104 . He is eating about 1/4 of his meal but maybe the painkiller helped with that.

Just surprised at the fever perhaps....
 

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104 is high and can do damage if it doesn't get lowered. No wonder he feels so bad...elevated white count means infection. More "detective" work needs to be done to find out what is going on.
 

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What does HOD stand for?
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Diet has been Nutro Adult large breed with moderate protein levels since age 5 mos

He does not to my fingers have swelling or much heat in joints.....but I am just a layperson.
 

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hypertrophic osteodystrophy

may be from a bacterial infection
may be a hyper reaction to vaccination

the forelimbs show a swollen knob just above the pastern, carpal area --- people push growth and then brag about "my what big bones he has"

showing turnout of feet Hypertrophic Osteodystrophy

I asked about the diet because I remembered something from an old Merck veterinary journal about a link to scurvy or vitamin C deficiency === and here is an excerpt from U Pennsylvania suggesting this

" growth rate discrepancies either within a given metaphysis (e.g., tibia) or between metaphyses of closely related long bones (e.g., radius and ulna). Thus canines afflicted with this disease as puppies have often been noted to be "cow hocked" or to exhibit radiocarpal valgus deviations as adults.(1,10,13,16) Resolution of the disease process is generally accompanied by complete remodeling of affected bones; however, residual radiographic abnormalities of bone shape and texture as well as vestiges of remodeled osteophytes can occasionally be detected in adult animals.(10,27) Hematologic examinations, serum alkaline phosphatase levels, and serum calcium and phosphorus values generally remain within normal ranges, regardless of the severity of clinical symptomatology, with no definable trends noted.(10,13,26) Since the disease has been believed to be linked to vitamin C deficiency, both serum ascorbic acid levels and urine ascorbic acid levels have been noted by multiple authors, with variable and conflicting results."


in total http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/saortho/chapter_50/50mast.htm

I am really trying to find a post that I responded to . The poster introduced their pup , picture showed the beginnings of knobby knees, east west feet, long flat toes .

will show --
 

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Wow, that poor pup is in pain.

Often the dog food bags, etc, say vit C is not an essential vitamin for dogs. I know it helps with joint issues. It seems we should probably be supplementing Vitamin C as a regular thing.
 

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lol "Often the dog food bags, etc, say vit C is not an essential vitamin for dogs. I know it helps with joint issues. It seems we should probably be supplementing Vitamin C as a regular thing."

lol - of course it isn't necessary --- it sure is . Going back almost 30 years intensive Swedish study on orthopedic problems (hip dysplasia) the biggest movement toward good results came from dogs that had sources of vitamin c included in their diet .
Full whole food C --- with co-factors .
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Carmen....just reading and am wondering what next step is. Fever isn't breaking.

Saw video...he isn't "knobby" like that....and he is 10 mos of age. it is a bit late for HOD to show up??? also...no turnout of feet like that.

I had been supplementing with digestive enzyme, MSM and 500 mg of Vit C for last 2 months.
 

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I gave my dogs supplemental vitamin C when they had bouts of pano. It helped reduce the inflammation and shortened the bout. I also fed a raw diet and made sure the ratio of calcium and phosphorus were equal. Green tripe was perfect in that respect.
I have always supplemented with C, until one of my dogs suffered from acute kidney failure(due to contracting Leptospirosis). C was not recommended as a supplement because it made the kidneys work a bit harder so I stopped it. C is manufactured by the Canines body and supplementing it is ok as it is passed through urine, and doesn't build up in the bloodstream. That said, try to use a natural citrus bioflavonoid and not a synthetic C.
One of my dogs went off food, and was in extreme discomfort from her pano bouts. I didn't give pain meds after the first bout. I wanted her to self limit and rimadyl was not something I wanted to give. At that time, Ascriptin was suggested to help relieve her pain, so I did give that.(9 years ago)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Uncertain where in Ontario to source a non synthetic Vit C ...dog is used to kibble....the switch of diet may be warranted but right now it feels hour by hour :(
 

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Uncertain where in Ontario to source a non synthetic Vit C ...dog is used to kibble....the switch of diet may be warranted but right now it feels hour by hour :(
I am not a fan of Nutro products...and you should always make sure the phos level is low on any kibble product you choose. There are 'minimum's' posted on bags, but you need to look on websites to get the real values.
C is manufactured by the Canines body and supplementing it is ok as it is passed through urine, and doesn't build up in the bloodstream.
I meant to say it isn't fat stored like a few other vitamin supplements(E is one example) C could be given daily in small doses per meal for best absorbtion and effectiveness. I always buy human grade vitamins for my dogs, or go to specialists like Carmen for specific things. I don't generally ever buy pet store vitamins
 
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