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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Has anyone had experience in the past with dogs from the Optikas D litter (Xamm von der Daelenberghütte x Zohra von der Daelenberghütte ) ? I would expect them to be highly driven but what else with regards to behaviour traits ? Better suited to sport or police ?

Or anyone seen dogs from a linebreeding on Optikas D litter ?

There is a bit on Belschik on the old threads but not so much on his litter with Rani and Optikas D litter linebred on them.

Thanks for any info :smile2:

link to pedigree below (Optikas Danno)

Optikas Danno
 

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The Belschik/Rani cross was one of the best of the crosses Rinus made, IMO. Drive, aggression, not necessarily dogs for everyone. Police or sport. I had a Belschik daughter (and now have her daughters, granddaughters and great granddaughter). A lot of drive, sometimes stupid drive (Vala would kill herself on the jump and wall for the dumbbell), very sound nerves, high hunt drive (though that may have mostly come from the female I bred to Belschik), some attitude in some of the dogs. I actually wanted to buy one of the X boys, but they decided to keep him.



Belschik was a rather rank dog who believed he owned the world. Exceptional nerves and approachable when I met him as an old dog. Crazy amount of drive both prey and aggression. Wish I had been able to breed another female to him.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks :)

So Belschik brought a lot of power and good stuff but does the line breeding on that litter affect the temperament to be more reactive, have lower thresholds/weaker nerves and be less calmer (probably more sporty) ? What does a line breeding on Rani bring being a daughter of Blacky ?
 

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Thanks :)

So Belschik brought a lot of power and good stuff but does the line breeding on that litter affect the temperament to be more reactive, have lower thresholds/weaker nerves and be less calmer (probably more sporty) ? What does a line breeding on Rani bring being a daughter of Blacky ?
You are on to something. More or multiplied is not necessarily better in breeding. There are countless dogs I know that themselves were super, but I would never linebreed on( unless an exception).....not commenting on Belshen, just on the principle. You really have to look hard at what composes a super dog. Is it balance, is it an exception, is it extremes, two of them I wouldn’t linebreed on one of them I would.....again there are exceptions, that’s just a rule of thumb for me.
 

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Blacky was a low threshold, I would say, slightly nervy dog so he needed to be used carefully. His brother, Berry, was probably the better dog, but wasn't as big of a name.



I would have no qualms linebreeding on Belishik himself as long as the pedigree itself was kept balanced. He brought a ton of drive and a ton of aggression. He was an extreme dog on many levels. 1 pup in my litter was dog aggressive/reactive. The rest were super solid in temperament with his exceptional nerves. Like Chip said, though, he needed to be bred correctly just like we should do with any really good dog.
 

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A friend of mine took an extreme female that goes back on Belschik, among others, and bred her to a Belschik grandson from my D litter. All of the pups went into SD homes for veterans with PTSD and one, at least, is training to be a diabetic alert dog. They have Very good working drives, very high hunt drive and phenomenal nerves.



I can't find the bitch's pedigree on line or I would post. This is the the sire:
Donovan zu Treuen Händen
 
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